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[Skyrunner]

Perhaps she should have drunk saline instead of water. :/

[RedKing]

1. The more you dilute something, the stronger the effects are.

....What? What?! D:

This is why the ocean tastes like fish pee.

[lorb]

I agree with most of the Green Party stuff...except for the trying to legislate neighborhoods into acting like hippie communes and funding fake medicine like homeopathy and CTM. I thought you were supposed to be the voice of reason, Green Party! Why did you let yourself get infected with New Age?!

From their website:

We support informed consent laws to educate consumers to potential health impact of types of treatment. For truly informed consent, a professional must explain the limitations of his or her professional training, and make the patient aware of what other professionals could offer differently or in addition.

Reading more I find that they do support homeopathy but not in a bad way imho. It seems to be more about enabling everyone to choose the treatment she/he wants, even if it's scientific bullshit.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I agree with most of the Green Party stuff...except for the trying to legislate neighborhoods into acting like hippie communes and funding fake medicine like homeopathy and CTM. I thought you were supposed to be the voice of reason, Green Party! Why did you let yourself get infected with New Age?!

From their website:

We support informed consent laws to educate consumers to potential health impact of types of treatment. For truly informed consent, a professional must explain the limitations of his or her professional training, and make the patient aware of what other professionals could offer differently or in addition.

Greens support a wide-range of health care services, not just traditional medicine which too often emphasizes "a medical arms race" that relies upon high-tech intervention, surgical techniques and costly pharmaceuticals. Chronic conditions are often best cured by alternative medicine. We support the teaching, funding and practice of holistic health approaches and as appropriate, the use of complementary and alternative therapies such as herbal medicines, homeopathy, naturopathy, traditional Chinese medicine and other healing approaches.

Reading more I find that they do support homeopathy but not in a bad way imho. It seems to be more about enabling everyone to choose the treatment she/he wants, even if it's scientific bullshit.

There is no good way to support homeopathy. Medicine is not a cabinet of options to pick from, it is a scientific field with scientific evidenced-based practices. When you go to a hospital or a doctor, it is not ethical for you to be offered bullshit alongside real medicine.

[Levi]

There is no good way to support homeopathy. Medicine is not a cabinet of options to pick from, it is a scientific field with scientific evidenced-based practices. When you go to a hospital or a doctor, it is not ethical for you to be offered bullshit alongside real medicine.

Agreed!

[Skyrunner]

There is no such freedom as the freedom to knowingly pick a therapy that will kill you, you mean? If so, yes. >:-(

[RedKing]

I'm a bit less sanguine about that view, considering I've used CTM (Chinese Traditional Medicine) to good effect in the past. Acupuncture used to be (still is in some circles) considered quackery too.

[lorb]

But you should be free to choose a treatment that is not accepted by the majority of science. Also the green party doesn't say it should be offered in hospitals, just that it should be more readily available than it is now. And besides: I don't think it's unethical to offer "bullshit alongside real medicine" if you keep with what I quoted from their website: the patient needs to be made aware that this is not "real medicine".

[Descan]

"Traditional Chinese medicine" just screams bullshit to me.

By the way, I think holistic is closer to what that person was thinking of to mean "natural cures" than homeopathy.

[lorb]

By the way: Jill Stein, nominee of the green party for president, is a physician by profession.

[10ebbor10]

If you are semi reasonable then you will vote democrat, because you realize that voting green is throwing your vote away.

As we all know, the only way to enact change is to continue as you have always done. If you don't see that democrats and republicans are just two sides of the same shitty coin your deluding yourself.

Unless you can suddenly get a large part of the people to vote for one specific party, I doubt you're going to change anything. America is stuck with it's 2 party system thanks to the way the elections work. (Ie, say I found a new party, that's like, for example, the democrats, but slightly different. Now, say, originally 55% of the population would have voted democrats, with 45% going to the republicains. Unfortunately my party got 10% of the votes that would have originally gone to the democrats go to me instead., causing them to lose the election.*)

*This would of course happen on a per state basis.

There is no such freedom as the freedom to knowingly pick a therapy that will kill you, you mean? If so, yes. >:-(

I believe there's the right to deny treatment, and there's always Euthanasia, though I don't know the legality of that in the States.

I'm a bit less sanguine about that view, considering I've used CTM (Chinese Traditional Medicine) to good effect in the past. Acupuncture used to be (still is in some circles) considered quackery too.

Yup, some of these things actually work.(Science often picks these up, but I remember that relatively recent research discovered that a folk medicin could cure a disease that was thought to be uncureable). Homeopathy can't work though. It completely relies on the placebo effect.

But you should be free to choose a treatment that is not accepted by the majority of science. Also the green party doesn't say it should be offered in hospitals, just that it should be more readily available than it is now. And besides: I don't think it's unethical to offer "bullshit alongside real medicine" if you keep with what I quoted from their website: the patient needs to be made aware that this is not "real medicine".

But is it ethical that you allow a patient to choose a medicin that you know will kill him, but he believes works. I believe that under current law you could be accused of negligence with death as a result.

"Traditional Chinese medicine" just screams bullshit to me.

By the way, I think holistic is closer to what that person was thinking of to mean "natural cures" than homeopathy.

There are a quite herbal remedies in there that actually work, and are currently being researched. Most of them are crap though

Edit: Damn ninjas

[Skyrunner]

Well, I, personally, did add an escape clause of "kill"... Acupuncture don't kill people, and neither does eastern traditional medicine. I don't think traditional medicine is a good replacement for modern drugs, though. Perhaps fine as a health supplement, but there's nothing like the correct antibiotic for a bacterial infection. There were many people who died because they didn't have anything other than TM, and were prescribed things like dried, ground herbs or antlers...

@Desc: I won't be quite sure about that. Some work well, like ones for fever or aches, and using them as a health supplement is fine.

@ebbor: Euthanasia isn't a therapy. Denying treatment isn't therapy. Homeotherapy is, and it doesn't work. :/

[kaijyuu]

Seems to me that their position is "stop pushing treatments based on profitability and instead offer multiple treatments that suit the patient best." And of course, the patient would be able to choose the treatment that suits them best.

MSH, you seem to be implying that there is One True Medicine (tm) and that all other options are inherently bullshit. Now, we can agree that homeopathy is an example of bullshit, but there are other alternative methods that are not. RedKing gave some examples. The Green Party's position to me reads as supporting those alternative methods, and while pointing out their supporting homeopathy is a valid criticism, it doesn't undermine their entire position on the issue (not nearly).

[lorb]

But you should be free to choose a treatment that is not accepted by the majority of science. Also the green party doesn't say it should be offered in hospitals, just that it should be more readily available than it is now. And besides: I don't think it's unethical to offer "bullshit alongside real medicine" if you keep with what I quoted from their website: the patient needs to be made aware that this is not "real medicine".

But is it ethical that you allow a patient to choose a medicin that you know will kill him, but he believes works. I believe that under current law you could be accused of negligence with death as a result.

Kinda boils down to the question "Is there a right to suicide?". If I tried everything I could to make it clear to that patient that this will kill/harm him why would I be obliged to stop him from still choosing it? (Assuming he is legally sane.)

[Criptfeind]

but there are other alternative methods that are not.

No.

Clearly there might be treatments here or there have have remained unfound by science, I think someone mentioned them before, but they are exceptions, not normal. The reason that generally all alternative medicine is bullshit is because if it works, then it is no longer alternative medicine. It becomes just medicine.