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Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1286264 times)

Solifuge

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2745 on: September 01, 2012, 11:52:29 am »

@Solifuge?

What makes you think Ron Paul wants government out of marriage? He voted for the "Defense Of Marriage Act".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act

I do not want to turn this into Ron Paul Will Fix The World Funtime, but I have to address this:

In a nutshell, he didn't and couldn't have voted for it, as he wasn't in Congress at the time. However, he's stated that he would have supported the act, because marriage is a religious ceremony, not a federal institution. What governments are concerned with is the financial unification of a household, not what ceremonies people go through before doing so... and despite his personal disagreement with gay marriage, he believes states should have the right to decide what constitutes civil union in the eyes of the state, not the federal government. Speaking of which...


Quote
What makes you think Ron Paul kept his religious views and politics separate? He wrote the "We The People Act".
...which promotes that anything that people do in their private lives, such as their sexual orientation, is not a matter for the federal government to discriminate or pass law on. As marriage licenses are a state institution, this would leave it up to individual states to decide what constitutes marriage, and people can move to states ideologically aligned with themselves, or campaign for local change where their voices have a chance to be heard. I don't like that there's no federal protection for gay marriage in states which have different law, but that's a matter to discuss afterward.


Mind, I don't see Romney winning this election. He's actually managed to become far more unlikeable than 2010-2011 Barack Obama, and that's really saying something. The man is positively dripping with smugness, is completely out of touch with the average American (again, more than Obama, which is saying something), and is practically made of plastic. The only way Obama is going to lose is if he screws up somehow or a gigantic depression hits.
I do social research for a living, and interview a lot of people about many things. On the latest study I've been on, we've been interviewing people about economic conditions, and people invariably start talking politics when you broach the subject. I'mma bend the terms of my non-disclosure agreement, and say that the overwhelming majority of people I've interviewed, from a randomly selected sample, have been vehemently critical of Obama, and have jumped to the Romney platform. I hear almost nothing criticizing him... what I hear is "Obama Care is ruining our economy," and "Romney is our only chance to fix this dragging economy."

So yeah, I'm not hopeful that smugness, self-contradiction, or anything will be enough to sway the snowballing effect here. I'll wait for the debates for my final prediction, though... seeing them together will hopefully shift sentiment a bit.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.

Leafsnail

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2747 on: September 01, 2012, 12:00:27 pm »

and despite his personal disagreement with X, he believes states should have the right to impose X on their citizens, not the federal government.
This pretty much sums up Ron Paul's entire platform.
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Truean

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2748 on: September 01, 2012, 12:20:13 pm »

.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 05:05:04 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

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darkrider2

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2749 on: September 01, 2012, 01:59:55 pm »

Damn truean the entire time I was reading your post I was imagining the most patriotic and noble of musics playing right behind you, as you stood in front of the American flag dishing out raw truth.

I shed a tear of pure patriotism after reading that.
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Solifuge

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2750 on: September 01, 2012, 02:18:34 pm »

And you honestly think somebody who wasn't a corrupt bastard, or at the very least employing a few, had a chance at being the President of the US given the type of corrupt environment we're dealing with? I'm sorry, but when I see Ron Paul, I just picture Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Ron Paul, himself, absolutely intended to be a serious candidate, except the deck was stacked against him from the get go. He never had a chance because people were actively trying to rob him of one and he wouldn't sink to their level and smack the dogshit outta them when the camera wasn't on....

I admit, I'm a starry-eyed idealist, but only because I know what potential we humans have. I understand that deep down we all want to survive in the long term and do good, even if many are blinded to large-scale good, because we get overly concerned with ourselves, our wants, our hurts, and the wellfare of those we care about.

However, I'm also aware that if I was ever in power in, say, Westeros, I would very soon be rendered headless.
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GreatJustice

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2751 on: September 01, 2012, 02:43:53 pm »

Had Paul not been impeded by the RNC, there would have (A) been a floor fight (derailing the coronation of Romney) and (B) He would have had a 15 minute speech (which could very well have been critical of Romney).
So? Unless I'm missing something, this is still supposed to be a democracy. Dissent is a good thing.

Hold on, hold on. I'm not saying I agree with Romney. Far from it. I'm just saying why the RNC and Romney would want to derail the Paulites before they got anywhere.

The RNC and Romney wanted the convention to be a coronation and a chance to show off Team Romney. They ideally wanted Romney and co to look good, the Republican party to look united, and to get lots of "Romney says X at convention!" news coverage.

Had the Paulites succeeded, that coverage could very well have turned into "Paul gets 15 minute speech, bashes nominee and splits party", "Paul supporters steal the show", or "Floor fight on convention floor throws Romney viability into doubt". Of course, now a lot of that coverage is "RNC beats down opposition within party, breaks own rules", but the media has up until now generally ignored Paul when it wasn't bashing him.

Really, the RNC should have probably given Paul a little speech, been very accommodating, and wooed his supporters by picking up some of the less polarizing policies (For example, his attacks on the Fed and ideas for competing currencies would have been relatively safe as the number of people who would consider it to be a major issue are quite overwhelmingly on Paul's side). At worst they would have mildly annoyed some of the country club Republicans in states they're unlikely to win, and at best they'd get the support of a very useful group without vote splitting.

I'm not attacking McCain (this time). I'm attacking everybody who puts the screws to the black guy for possibly not having been born in the US (turns out he was born in the US), but the old white guy we KNOW FOR A FACT wasn't born in the US gets a complete pass. Ah, hypocrisy in US politics with a garnish of Racism, it's a staple of our diet..

IIRC birthers didn't really exist in significant numbers until well after Obama's election. I think the big "controversy" of the time was either "OBAMA'S A MUSLIM" or "OBAMA'S PRIEST IS NUTS". For all we know, McCain could have had his own birther equivalents had he won the election.

Ron Paul, himself, absolutely intended to be a serious candidate, except the deck was stacked against him from the get go.

Don't get me started. A few weeks before the Iowa caucus, Ron Paul suddenly began to increase in the polls. However, unlike every other candidate, including clowns like Herman Cain and Michelle Bachmann, the media completely ignored it and talked up Gingrich and Romney. About two weeks before the polls opened, he actually came first in several polls, whereupon the media engaged in a gigantic campaign of smear attacks. This lasted for a week and didn't so much as dent his polling, so instead the media picked up an obvious outlier poll and claimed that Santorum was the only alternative to Romney, whereupon Santorum actually began to get support and ended up winning. It was a disgrace of reporting.

Mind, as you said, Paul was partly to blame for being unwilling to ever attack Santorum or Romney, even when it was clear he had to do so to win the caucus. He was willing to attack Gingrich (though Paul and Gingrich have big issues going back to the 90s), and it worked pretty well.
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The person supporting regenerating health, when asked why you can see when shot in the eye justified it as 'you put on an eyepatch'. When asked what happens when you are then shot in the other eye, he said that you put an eyepatch on that eye. When asked how you'd be able to see, he said that your first eye would have healed by then.

Professional Bridge Toll Collector?

Truean

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2752 on: September 01, 2012, 04:12:59 pm »

.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 08:52:39 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

justinlee999

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2753 on: September 02, 2012, 02:58:04 am »

Truean you should be my lawyer in the future.
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darkrider2

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2754 on: September 02, 2012, 09:40:33 am »

Truean you should be my lawyer in the future.

Be all of our lawyers.
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Dutchling

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2755 on: September 02, 2012, 12:17:11 pm »

Truean you should be my lawyer in the future.

Be all of our lawyers.
Be all of our everything.
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kaijyuu

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2756 on: September 02, 2012, 12:18:16 pm »

Truean you should be my lawyer in the future.

Be all of our lawyers.
Be all of our everything.
"Everything" includes quite a lot of things!
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Vorthon

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2757 on: September 02, 2012, 06:28:16 pm »

Truean you should be my lawyer in the future.

Be all of our lawyers.
Be all of our everything.
"Everything" includes quite a lot of things!
And includes being numerous mutually exclusive things at once.
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Truean

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2758 on: September 02, 2012, 07:06:14 pm »

[blush] thank you all for that, but I think that'd be a bit much.

I'm just very sad that I had and lost a large account. Perhaps I shouldn't have said anything? Regardless, I appreciate the sentiment, but I mostly just want friends here. I really can't take cases online, but I appreciate it all the same.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 08:58:52 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

kaijyuu

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2759 on: September 02, 2012, 07:09:27 pm »

Regardless, I appreciate the sentiment, but I mostly just want friends here.
That can be arranged.

/tackle hug
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.
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