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[Leafsnail]

Right yeah, I forgot somehow.  Replace them with "anyone with the slightest shred of sense".

[scriver]

Well, glad it didn't pass.

Continuing on the note of good news; the Swedish translator (specialising in Manga) who was tried for possession of child pornography (meaning the pictures of said manga) was deemed innocent by the Swedish High Court yesterday. I've been meaning to bring this case up here but wanted to make up my mind about it first - can't say I really have though, I'm still very conflicted about it. On one level, I feel it is child pornography and should be treated as such, but then again, it's a comic. It's not like any real kid was hurt during it's making.. But I don't know. I can't decide for or against it.

Regardless, I feel it was a good thing that a translator of a comic wasn't found guilty, even if he "enable the use of it for others" or whatever. Sentencing him just feels wrong on a whole different level, even if I think what he was translating is wrong in itself... I don't know. I've got some severe cognitive dissonance over it all, to say the least. Damn real world being all complicated and gray.

[Truean]

Remember the proposed North Dakota constitutional measure to allow people to claim innocence if something "violated their religion"?
It failed, 64% to 36%.  Also, there apparently was another ass backwards proposal to eliminate property taxes (I guess funding schools and fire departments isn't important to some people.), and it failed 77% to 23%.

Link to results; Measure 2 is the one proposing to eliminate property taxes, and measure 3 is the religion one.

Thank freaking god.... No property taxes and religious takeover would've been bad....

Yeah, I have an uber libertarian Ayn Rand obsessed brother. The guy scares me.

I understand the inherent appeal of just being able to do whatever you want, but the problem is, other people will want to do batshit crazy things. One of the main non economic libertarian things I've never gotten is opposition to the civil rights movement as "government interference." Basically, if you're a racist shithead then some of them say you should be able to exclude black people from your store, because it's your property etc etc etc. This just.... ignores reality so badly along with the fact that this is more or less exiling an entire race of people from society and demanding that they drink at the "coloreds only" which either doesn't work half the time if you're luck or if you're unlucky does work but dispenses water you wouldn't wash your dog with....

That doesn't even get into the lack of any meaningful way to fund any government without taxes, even the things Ms. Rand deemed necessary (Military, Police, and Courts).

The idea of people butting the hell out of your life completely sounds good in theory until you actually apply it.

I just... feel like a lot of people are on this, "I don't wanna ever pay for anything" kick lately, and to the best of my knowledge, that's not what being an adult is....

[penguinofhonor]

Continuing on the note of good news; the Swedish translator (specialising in Manga) who was tried for possession of child pornography (meaning the pictures of said manga) was deemed innocent by the Swedish High Court yesterday. I've been meaning to bring this case up here but wanted to make up my mind about it first - can't say I really have though, I'm still very conflicted about it. On one level, I feel it is child pornography and should be treated as such, but then again, it's a comic. It's not like any real kid was hurt during it's making.. But I don't know. I can't decide for or against it.

My current opinion on this topic is that pedophilia is bad when it hurts children. It doesn't really matter how gross I think some loli hentai is, that doesn't make it illegal. It's not hurting anyone if no real children were involved with its creation.

Fictional works can be pretty damn gross and depict things that would be horribly illegal in real life. That's just how fiction is. It can be regulated and have warnings required to make sure nobody sees it if they don't want to. In a vacuum, though, it's a victimless crime.

It could be argued that it encourages pedophiles to act on their desires. I'm pretty sure we have real frequencies of child molestation in countries before and after the legalization of drawn child porn, though, and I think the current numbers show the opposite effect.

[scriver]

I agree (and what you said is basically what I wanted to express with "it's a comic" above), but there's also a difference between fiction which contains or deals with pedophilia (like, say, Lolita does) and pornographic fiction, which's point is, well, the pedophilic porn.

As I said, I'm conflicted.

[penguinofhonor]

There's this pledge thing against money/corruption in elections and government. Internet petitions might not do much, but it has a neat map showing the pledges in each state.

[kaijyuu]

No victim, no crime, imo. I'm fine with pedophilia so long as it stays 100% in the realm of fantasy. Soon as a real child comes into play, then there's a problem.

Same with anything else that would be illegal if acted out in real life.



EDIT: Note that I don't think it at all unreasonable to consider that stuff "nasty," "gross," "sick and wrong," etc. You don't have to like it, not at all. I just don't think it should be illegal.

[Leafsnail]

There's this pledge thing against money/corruption in elections and government. Internet petitions might not do much, but it has a neat map showing the pledges in each state.

I really like this actually.  4 specific but important demands.  I'm not sure how big the people running it are but these 4 points seem like a great basis for a reform movement (kindof reminds me of Charterism, actually, which had 5 key points... while they didn't succeed all of their points except yearly parliaments were eventually put into place).

[Sirus]

No victim, no crime, imo. I'm fine with pedophilia so long as it stays 100% in the realm of fantasy. Soon as a real child comes into play, then there's a problem.

Same with anything else that would be illegal if acted out in real life.



EDIT: Note that I don't think it at all unreasonable to consider that stuff "nasty," "gross," "sick and wrong," etc. You don't have to like it, not at all. I just don't think it should be illegal.

I'm pretty much the same way. There are some truly bizarre fetishes out there, but as long as all parties involved give informed consent, I don't really care.

[Sheb]

Considering the US ability to stop being rational as soon as the lobbying become strong enough, this is scary. *Insert obligatory quote about military-industrial complex and Ike.*

[kaijyuu]

I find it incredibly ironic that the guy's system is called "Freedom on the Move." Seriously, that has to be intentional.

[Sheb]

You got to give that to you american: you like freedom. In your own version of 1984, you'd have Freedomspeak, a ministry of Freedom and Freedomscreen.

[kaijyuu]

Heh, yeah. Everything's justified under the banner of "freedom." Freedom fries!


But in this case, "Freedom on the Move" could just as easily be seen as talking about the illegal immigrants, not the mobile what's-it. The people seeking freedom are moving, and you've got to crush them. It's a damn good satirical name, so much so I'm seriously thinking it was intentional.

[Sheb]

Gotta share this, because it seriously make me sick. Yesterday, some populist party organized a demonstration against "Islamist Fascism" (we had some huge media noise in Belgium over some group called "Sharia4Belgium" making a press conference). Now, as is often the case, left wing organization organized a counter-protest.

The police made a wall around the right-wing militant (Their group is actually called "Nation"), and started pursuing the left-winger. Some of them tried to escape through an underground station. Well, see for yourself.

I'm fucking disgusted at my country right now. Gosh, I just stepped outside of the classroom where I'm studying to cry outside.

[Montague]

Why would a left-wing organization support a group calling for Sharia law?