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[Truean]

Re: Procreation arguments.

If pumping out babies is the goal, I'm pretty sure monogamous relationships (as opposed to some free love thing) act contrary to that, homosexual or hetero.

If raising kids is the goal, and not pumping out babies, then gay couples marrying (and adopting) helps with that. We currently have more babies than parents willing to raise them.


Any procreation argument either works against heterosexual couples just as much as homo, or supports homosexual couples.



Anywho history has shown if you want to stop prejudice and hate, get them to empathize with you. You have to get people to see you as a human being, who feels the same things you do.

It comes down to "people we like enough get rights", and that's basically it.

Welcome to human existence. The vast majority of people don't care about those they don't like. You have to "prove" your worth to most people.

To be clear, he is right though. It should be the way he implies, with people just chilling out.... Should....

[Max White]

I'm really tired of people saying that gay marriage would "Change the nature of marriage for everybody!"
Do people seriously think that if gay people get married, it will change how they treat their current spouse? There isn't a set role assignment in marriage to change, but further more, I say it wouldn't change the true nature of marriage at all. Marriage isn't two people coming together and saying "Well you have an XX chromosome, I have XY, I dare say we are an ideal genetic pairing for the procreation of human life!" Nobody thinks like that. Marriage is two paying saying "Well I love you, I'm hoping you love me just as much, let's spend the rest of our lives together and have a big ceremony and invite all our friends and family to celebrate this fact!", and if you accept that homosexuals love each other, gay marriage wouldn't change that at all.


And if you don't accept that homosexuals love each other, you are a soulless, faceless eldritch being from some twisted corner of space, and you can go fuck yourself.

[MonkeyHead]

LIke this asshat, who seems to be missing the point entirely.

Remember kids, if you arent a "good Catholic", you will burn in hellfire for all eternity. There are no other choices. None. At all. Ever.

[Max White]

Let's face it, higher up members of the clergy are all evil space monsters, thus the big hats. It is to cover up the rest of their abnormally large head.

[Leafsnail]

He added: "Imagine for a moment that the government had decided to legalise slavery but assured us that 'no one will be forced to keep a slave'.

"Would such worthless assurances calm our fury? Would they justify dismantling a fundamental human right?"

I, uh... what.  Well, homophobic institution's gonna homophobe.  There isn't really much you can do except sigh, shake your head and look on the bright side.

Mr Cameron publicly supported gay marriage at last year's Conservative Party conference, and the Home Office said last week the government believed a loving and committed couple should "have the option of a civil marriage irrespective of their sexual orientation".

The government's in favour, the opposition's in favour.  There'll clearly be a bunch of backbench Conservatives who oppose it but the Conservatives don't have a majority so it should be relatively easy to pass.  The House of Lords would be harder due to the automatic presence of bishops, but that's getting reformed soon so hopefully the bigots can be cleared out of there too.

[MonkeyHead]

AFAIK most of the Bishops in the Lords are CofE which is FAR more moderate than the RC church.

[Leafsnail]

But still not "moderate" enough to support gay marriage.  Maybe Rowan Williams would, because he's a cool dude, but the church as a whole remains pretty divided on homosexuality.

[Virex]

You don't even need a majority among the bishops though, only among the entire house, right? So even if more then half of them vote against it the law could pass.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Why look, Rick Santorum thinks that he can unmarry all the married gay people. For someone who supposedly practiced law he sure seems to have no idea how he'd actually accomplish any of his crazed proposals.

[Reelya]

Rick Santorum: "We can't have 50 different marriage laws in this country," he said. "You have to have one marriage law."

Right, so now it's gotta be a federal thing but when the federal law doesn't suit them, they want states rights. e.g Arizona's immigration bill, OR their stance on states rights on marriage when the idea of a federal gay-marriage law ALLOWING it comes up.

[Truean]

Rick Santorum: "We can't have 50 different marriage laws in this country," he said. "You have to have one marriage law."

Right, so now it's gotta be a federal thing but when the federal law doesn't suit them, they want states rights. e.g Arizona's immigration bill, OR their stance on states rights on marriage when the idea of a federal gay-marriage law ALLOWING it comes up.

In re Santorum: Yeah, basically twist the law to fit whatever is in style this week... for them. For corporations, it's whatever is most beneficial to them this week: they are or are not a "person" for purposes of X. Same thing with any policy they want pushed through.

Whatever happened to "small government?" <-- Remember this "time honored conservative value?" Turns out it really means "a government that lets "me" (them) do whatever the hell they want while being as nosy and intrusive as possible to everyone else."

Small government appears to fit in a woman's uterus, never mind abortion, now it's even birth control and contraceptives. It certainly fits in the gays' lives. On these issues, government can be as big as it takes to regulate the shit out the whole area, because it doesn't effect "me." Funny how a lot of insurances cover Viagra.... Birth control pills though, apparently this is the new national uproar that insurances don't and shouldn't cover this? For shame, that has to do with sex, sometimes. Never mind the health related, non sexual uses of birth control pills for women.... Viagra has no other use besides sex, but ... don't focus on that completely relevant issue.... Also never mind that without population control of some type, we'll have to pay far, far more to take care of all these people, which again, no one wants to do....

"Small government," bullshit. Only if you're someone they like. If you're not, then it should be huge and all over you....

"States' Rights," v. "National" is also misplaced and they've messed it up so bad no one knows how it should be anymore. Traditionally here's how it "should" go. The states have police powers and jurisdiction over family law. Ergo in theory they should have jurisdiction over the whole "marriage" and "gay marriage" thing under the federal separation of powers deal. However, then the conservatives didn't like that some states were allowing gay marriage so they conveniently forgot all about that "State's Rights" stuff and made a national law called DOMA basically giving the government power to deny a state's legally allowed gay marriage (in states where it was legal) any legitimacy on a national level. And now people are saying to revive the federal marriage amendment banning gay marriage is a great idea on the right wing....

They have no problems amending state constitutions to make sure nothing even close to gay marriage or civil unions is allowed (in 34 states last time I counted), but the idea of a state actually allowing it.... That's just completely unacceptable to them.... Those 34 states banning gay marriage, they have "State's Rights." The ones allowing gay marriage, screw them?

So basically, it's whatever gets (re)election and if that means changing back and forth as much as possible then so be it...? Got it. Consistency, tradition, the Constitution? They claim to be all about those things, except the parts they don't like. The little things really, like the Constitution. And now it's "let's add another amendment to it while taking one out." Mix and match to your heart's content!

[Heron TSG]

A petition to drop charges against a trans woman accused of murder. She and all witnesses have reported this sequence of events:

1. Cece walks past a bar with her friends.
2. Some people come out of the bar and start insulting her.
3. She confronts them, saying that she won't tolerate hate speech.
4. She was attacked, including getting smashed in the face with a glass bottle.
5. Many parties started fighting, and she ended up on the ground bleeding. Her attacker was dead.
6. The police arrived and Only arrested her.

She was detained, she wasn't allowed immediate medical treatment, and was forced to sign a confession. (Which she later recanted.) She has been placed in solitary "for her own protection" because she is trans.

Gack.

[Truean]

A petition to drop charges against a trans woman accused of murder. She and all witnesses have reported this sequence of events:

1. Cece walks past a bar with her friends.
2. Some people come out of the bar and start insulting her.
3. She confronts them, saying that she won't tolerate hate speech.
4. She was attacked, including getting smashed in the face with a glass bottle.
5. Many parties started fighting, and she ended up on the ground bleeding. Her attacker was dead.
6. The police arrived and Only arrested her.

She was detained, she wasn't allowed immediate medical treatment, and was forced to sign a confession. (Which she later recanted.) She has been placed in solitary "for her own protection" because she is trans.

Gack.

Yup.... [Sigh]. All too common. "Clearly," a transperson (rarely referred to that politely) is only out to cause trouble in everything they do.... Why else would they dress like that....

Sometimes, people who know me say things like, "you shouldn't have to put up with that," or "you should just come out. It'd be easier and you wouldn't have to lie all the time." Idealism, is not realism. If you're a transsexual and ever arrested, then you're basically screwed.

[Virex]

A petition to drop charges against a trans woman accused of murder. She and all witnesses have reported this sequence of events:

1. Cece walks past a bar with her friends.
2. Some people come out of the bar and start insulting her.
3. She confronts them, saying that she won't tolerate hate speech.
4. She was attacked, including getting smashed in the face with a glass bottle.
5. Many parties started fighting, and she ended up on the ground bleeding. Her attacker was dead.
6. The police arrived and Only arrested her.

She was detained, she wasn't allowed immediate medical treatment, and was forced to sign a confession. (Which she later recanted.) She has been placed in solitary "for her own protection" because she is trans.

Gack.

If you ask me, there should realy be a law that says that in cases like these (bigotery-inspired viollence), self-defense is presumed unless strong evidence can be given otherwise.

[Max White]

Just out of interest, is there a common term for a transgender person that is thought of as being polite?