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[Sheb]

Each time I read Truean, I am both awed by her courage and disgusted by the society she live in. I now a random shout from someone on the internet don't mean much, but I genuinely admire you.

[Truean]

It's called denial.

I try to explain things to people and they laughably think their denial and rephrasing of the same thing will matter. It doesn't. It is as if people seem to think explaining what they want in a different way or something will change the underlying nature of that thing and thus free them from the restrictive rules of the universe. It won't.

There's no "intent" issue, here. We all know exactly what that bill is about, and no amount of backpedaling or mental gymnastics is going to change that. Complain, cry and scream all you want Gov. Won't help. It's a bigoted bill, just like poll taxes and Jim Crow were:

Pictured: "Not racist.... We swear." ~ Disney

There are very few characters named after what species they are in the Disney character library: Mickey Mouse, Minnie Mouse, Donald Duck, and Daisy Duck, and those are couples, so Minnie and Daisy took Mickey and Donald's last name.... Jiminy Cricket was a play on words pun and an adaptation of an Itailain talking cricket from Pinocchio. Then there's Jim Crow....

Jim Crow.... He's number 7 on the list.... Then of course there's this "not racist" song. I get that it was 1941, and I really do. Please keep in mind it isn't "Simba Lion, or Abu Monkey," or "Iago Parrot." It isn't Sebastien Crab or Flounder Fish. Even Dumbo is not called "Dumbo Elephant," but rather his official name is "Dumbo Jumbo," and Dumbo's mom is listed as "Mrs. Jumbo." More recently the mouse over at Disney has been trying to change history by altering the original names of certain characters, who either originally didn't have names or were originally just "Blue fish #12 from The Little Mermaid," and who often did not originally have speaking lines to name them "fish."

They've also introduced an extended family related to Donald with the "Duck" surname curiously attached even though they were nieces of Daisy Duck and thus presumably wouldn't have their aunt's husband's surname.... These three were NEVER featured in the original DuckTales! Cartoon, but were dredged up as former no name background characters and are now going to be featured as part of Disney's revamped and altered new DucktTales! which they are trying to drum up interest for more money appreciation from this IP. I mean sure, you could make the argument that these characters were always around, but did YOU ever hear of them? People know about Donald's Nephews, Huey Dewey and Louie who got their own show, but have any of you heard of "April, May, and June, Duck?" What's odd is that they had a female child character on the Ducktales show who DID NOT have the "Duck" Surname and that was Wbbigail "Webby" Vanderquack. So yeah, you can say there are some Disney Characters with their species in their surname, but come on... "Jim Crow?"

So, this guy can try to "explain" all he wants. This is still a bigoted law.
http://news.yahoo.com/pence-effort-clarify-religious-objections-law-underway-050406066.html

Look at him dodge and evade questions left and right. Pence addressed the critics Sunday, saying: "This avalanche of intolerance that's been poured on our state is just outrageous." You ain't seen nothin' yet..... I'm getting really sick of being treated like a 5th class citizen and worse than the felons I was essentially forced to represent. I'm going to have to spend most if not all of my life hiding and fighting for the right to be treated like a human being while being kicked by some of the very people I've helped.... Is it any wonder I used to get a little upset sometimes?

[scriver]

This isn't in argument with your point, Truean, which I agree with, but you set off my nitpicking sense a little.

1. A flounder is a type of fish

2. Those duck characters are still well and alive in the European market, where those Disney characters have a lot bigger audience than in the US. For example, the Scandinavian and Dutch comic book markets are pretty much dominated by Disney/Donald Duck comics. So they are far from unknown over here.

[Helgoland]

Yeah, it's nothing new that there's an extended Duck family - remember Uncle Scrooge, or Gladstone Gander (who by the way is named after his species too, sort of at least)? Plus I don't think that DuckTales is the original canon material, I'd point you to Mr. Carl Barks for that...

(Not that any of this invalidates your argument, but what you said just didn't sound right to a Duckverse fan.)

[Reelya]

April May and June Duck. I remember those from the comics. And the last time I read Disney comics was over 20 years ago. I never got into the Duck Tales cartoon, I'm talking about the print comics that were around before it.

EDIT: Those characters first appeared in 1953 according to wiki. So, they're not in any way some new concoction. Donald Duck comics go way, way back and the show was itself a spin-off from that.

[Truean]

O we know of and love the extended "Duckverse" here in the states as well.

The point was the surnames, or last names are now lining up with the species more and with more purpose behind it. Webby, for example was not named "Webby Duck" she was named "Webby Vanderquack." While she is a member of the duck species, "Duck" is not her last name.  Even Uncle Scrooge was McDuck, not "Duck." And yes Flounder is a type of Fish, but the character's last name is not "Fish." It's Launchpad McQuack, Gyro Gearloose, Fenton Crackshell, etc.

And yes, you've got April May and June, but that wasn't the point. The point was, again, the surname of "Duck." It doesn't make sense for them to have the surname "Duck" as a last name from their aunt's husband. Do you take the name of your aunt's husband? Nope. And again, there are and have been other non species related surnames.

The issue isn't that they are ducks as a species (cartoon), but rather that they are recently having last names that are "Duck" as listing their species fairly recently. Thus, if Disney has several bird and other cartoon characters who are given last names not reflecting their species, they should've probably named "Jim Crow" something else. I mean even "Jim the Crow" would be marginally better. Or at least not have named him "Jim." I mean ... something, almost anything but that.

Shit we're derailing the thread:

[Reelya]

Scrooge McDuck is racist too, since it's a play on the notion that scotsmen are misers.

[Helgoland]

I wouldn't exactly call the Scots a race...

[Descan]

* Descan flashes the Owl-signal.

[hops]

* The Owl signal is traumatised.

[SalmonGod]

So, this guy can try to "explain" all he wants. This is still a bigoted law.
http://news.yahoo.com/pence-effort-clarify-religious-objections-law-underway-050406066.html

Look at him dodge and evade questions left and right. Pence addressed the critics Sunday, saying: "This avalanche of intolerance that's been poured on our state is just outrageous." You ain't seen nothin' yet..... I'm getting really sick of being treated like a 5th class citizen and worse than the felons I was essentially forced to represent. I'm going to have to spend most if not all of my life hiding and fighting for the right to be treated like a human being while being kicked by some of the very people I've helped.... Is it any wonder I used to get a little upset sometimes?

Just watched the interview.  His obvious refusal to admit to his own agenda is comical.

I wish the interviewer had been a bit more clever.  Ask him to provide an example of the government overreach that infringes on his religious liberties, even a hypothetical one, which is amended by his bill.  Or if he wants to constantly compare it to the federal law signed in '93, then ask him what exactly needed to be clarified or added to that protection in order for him to feel the need to pass his own state-level bill.  Try some different questions that force him to alter his responses at least a little bit, so they can be cross-examined.

[hops]

As if the interviewer didn't support him?

[GreatJustice]

I wouldn't exactly call the Scots a race...

What qualifies a race? Scots are as much a race as Irish, and Irish definitely experienced racism, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to let them qualify.

[lorb]

For the purpose of the definition of "racism", a race can be any group of people that the "racist" thinks is a race.

[hops]

What do you guys think what would be the best way for a non-USA person to oppose Indiana?

I mean I guess with all the doom and gloom here this is probably not the best place to ask, but still...