Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Antsan]

(although economists seem to ignore that, see the metaphor of evolution for the free market would actually compel someone to pressure for more regulation instead of less)

Huh? Please elaborate, I've no idea what you're talking about.

A good evolutionary algorithm needs an optimization function which judges how well the agents are doing. Just making an evolutionary algorithm and having a sloppy optimization function won't give great or even good results in many cases. This means that these optimization functions need to be fine tuned, checked and rechecked.
The Free Market ideal asserts that "how much money do people invest" is a sufficient optimization function. Fine tuning that optimization function (as the metaphor suggests) through regulation is frowned upon.

So, what I wrote wasn't entirely correct, but still, if the evolutionary metaphor for the Free Market holds (as in "corporations are evolving agents") if we want good results we need regulation.

[Bauglir]

@Frumple
Well, yeah, but by the time you actually put them in charge of anything you'll have been raising them for so long that they'll presumably have the morals you decided to teach them well-ingrained into their behavior. Because otherwise they won't be competent, either. The whole AI glitching and turning into a malevolent overlord thing presumes an AI that has toddler-like levels of empathy and naivety about what it wants, but super-genius levels of competence and knowledge. I find it hard to believe that these things will ever coincide accidentally.

Now, it could be deliberately done by somebody doing something stupid like trying to make a soldier AI, but that's a different thing. Like, if you're trying to make a psychopath.

EDIT: And re: evolution in the markets, anybody who knows anything about evolution knows it's a really slow, inefficient, and above all brutal algorithm. It's the last resort in just about any application it actually gets used for, as far as I'm aware, and under no account should it voluntarily be used when the units that get culled off are actual people.

[Helgoland]

Also remember that evolution has no innate goal, it's just a way of adapting to circumstances. Antsan really has it spot-on there.

[Graknorke]

Evolution can be good at finding unintuitive solutions, so long as you either have very fast iteration or a lot of time to work with (though you can never have too much). Unfortunately, an AI doesn't really fall into either of those categories. You're going to want a while to test its competence and also probably have it done within a human lifetime. Given the complexity of what you're working with it's not likely to happen unaided.

[Descan]

I mean, the thing is, the defining characteristic of a good AI is that it can learn things very efficiently. That being the case, it seems strange to me to behave as though it will spring into being fully-formed with goals and skills and so on. It's not as though you'll compile a program and bam, your computer is talking to you. It seems more likely that it will need an education - it will need to be taught how to do things, and why. Motivations it has will be composites arising from how it thinks and the sensory experiences it has - very likely, an AI won't just be a computer program running in isolation, but will need things like a webcam and microphone in order to experience the world in a way that lets it form notions tied to, well, experience (although there's no reason it couldn't have additional senses, like a smell analogue for network traffic or something).

Making an AI of the kind people tend to envision is probably going to wind up being a lot like raising a child (with the major exception that you can have backups and copies made fairly trivially). If you're a parent, and you're worried about your toddler getting into the knife cabinet, how much of your fear is for your safety?

The difference is that an AI could probably get access to a digital library of human knowledge and leapfrog knowledge. The equivalent of a human going from "See Spot Run" to "War and Peace", but in days, hours, minutes instead of decades. There's a lot of ethical (and unethical) teachings in such a library.

And in a more specific sense, a person who programs the AI could conceivably create a ready-to-eat library of how-to guides for basic AI needs, like how to read a book, or how to understand and process language?

[Antsan]

Just need to remember that an AI might be able to learn, but if it cannot alter its programming in any significant way, it's stuck with the same shortfalls it was programmed with.

Not really. Self modifying programs are a thing and I am pretty sure that can be extended to hardware. Of course how they modify themselves is still up to how they were originally programmed, but that doesn't mean that it is stuck with anything at all.

[Antsan]

Oops, missed the "if". Sorry about that.
I thought you assumed it wasn't possible, thus the answer.

And of course for hardware rewiring it would need the right tools.

[Truean]

So this again, same shit different flavor and expectation that I swallow it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/domenick-scudera/introducing-the-alert-sil_b_6830766.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Mr. Silk believes that gays "don't have a right to be served in every single store. "

 

There's that bullshit phrase again, "And I say that sensitively, because I have homosexual friends." Who still like you despite you passing laws banning them from whatever parts of the public space and public serving places are arbitrarily off limits somehow?

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and not call BS on this whole thing being about religion and say that it's not due to blatant prejudice against gays.

Then it's unequal enforcement.... Your religion frowns upon certain things? One of those things is gays? Does it frown upon other things? Stealing, adultery, killing, the rest of those biggie 10 commandments?



But you'd serve an adulterer? And you'd serve an ex con who stole something? Etc etc. But not a gay person?



....

[Descan]

Hell, if you say that phrase in earnest, you're MORE likely to be a racist.

When's the last time you heard a non-racist say something like that earnestly? (Non-racist as defined either by personal knowledge of the person, or if they're someone you don't know, then by them not saying something racist. "something racist" obviously does not include the phrase "Some of my friends are [race]!")

[TD1]

None of my friends are black.

But, given the fact there's only one person who's black in my school, that's hardly surprising. 

[Dutchling]

I too, had a black guy at attending high school.

* Dutchling high-fives TheDwarf

[ggamer]

one time i saw a black person at the corner store, it was terrifying and I notified my klan supervisor stationed in every town and city in the south and he was immediately lynched

((no but seriously I went to a private school in a small town that had maybe 300 students K-12, and there was only 1 black student. I'm more intimately connected to racism than most people could believe is possible))

[TD1]

I too, had a black guy at attending high school.

* Dutchling high-fives TheDwarf

Mine's a girl. Hey! Maybe we can put them on a blind date?

[hops]

None of my friends are black. I'm racist, I swear.

[Darvi]

None of my friends are alive.

On an entirely unrelated note, I am not a serial killer.