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[penguinofhonor]

Well, if you want the best study of all- try going without refined sugar (including corn syrup) for 2 weeks. Tell us how it goes.

I definitely know people who have done that without withdrawals.

Of course, you can psych yourself into having withdrawals from anything. I've seen sites decrying bread as the cause of all modern health problems full of people talking about how quit bread and went through bread withdrawals.

[scriver]

Bread is sugar.

And I can't know if they meant drug-/alcohol-like withdrawal or just figuratively/exaggeratingly but I'd assume the later, as I myself fight a continuous struggle against my bread habits. Especially the one late in the evening. It's so hard not to give in.

[penguinofhonor]

Bread is sugar.

These people didn't mention cutting out any other sugar. They were definitely not having sugar withdrawals.

And these were serious symptoms. People reported shaking, stomach aches, and nausea. Not just bread cravings.

[scriver]

Yeah... Hehe. Gonna assume their local bakery puts a little extra secret ingredient in his bread to keep the customers coming back

[Frumple]

... y'know, I'm not saying it's what's happening, but it is a possibility that different physiologies are reacting in different ways, right? Iirc, you have something similar with salt -- some people have absolutely zero problem with a very substantial salt diet (and, in fact, suffer problems when they don't have it), but others aren't as tolerant. Maybe some portions of the population do experience bread withdrawals for some ungodly reason.

Sounds like something someone should do a straight up study on, honestly. Full blast, genetic tests and the whole shebang. Hell, maybe even keep up on neural activity during the process, see if there's something different going on there. They could just be noceboing themselves into suffering, but it's also possible there's something more substantial going on.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

I am very skeptical when it comes to throwing that word around in the absence of strong withdrawal effects.

So cocaine isn't addictive?
There's psychological dependence as well as physical dependence, you know.

Nono, I'm just very skeptical. Cocaine & gambling are two I accept pretty readily, probably due to the obvious effects both of these can have on the lives of the afflicted, (bankruptcy, functional impairment, forfeiture of social/family connections). Which probably isn't the best/correct criteria.
My original assertion that 'it has a definition dude' probably wasn't the best choice of words...

Looking around, I'm getting the feeling that anything that activates the FosB reward system can be addicting. Which means 99% of the populace, -anyone that engages in anything rewarding-, are flirting with addiction or are addicts.
At that point the word kinda loses meaning.
Methinks the terminology needs to be redefined in the near future.



OI, did anyone get around to watching the whole video yet?!

[Descan]

That's why people separate chemically/physiologically addictive from psychological addiction, dude.

[FearfulJesuit]

Pretty much everyone's addicted to something. It's just that cocaine will fuck you up way more than coffee will.

As a side note, has anyone read that news stories about those noodle restaurants in China that kept business up by slipping opiates into their noodles?

[GrizzlyAdamz]

That's why people separate chemically/physiologically addictive from psychological addiction, dude.

Humbug dude. The distinction is hardly made and the actual meaning/implication of the two isn't ever elaborated on. 'Addiction' is a catch-all buzzword that equates heroine dependency with compulsive gambling and even regular excercise.


Hah, doesn't china have really strict drug laws?

[Frumple]

... what? No, there... there's fairly significant differences between a physical addiction and a psychological addiction. Among other things, the former's withdrawal symptoms can actually kill you. The latter only makes you want to die, at worst. Going cold turkey from gambling isn't going to cause your heart to stop. Going cold turkey from some chemically addictive substances will.

I mean, yeah, general parlance doesn't differentiate too readily, but there's a pretty damned significant difference in regards to treatment and medical/psychiatric consideration.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

I'm railing against the general parlance/use in the media. As a label 'addictive' is borked.

[Frumple]

Ah. Yeah, more or less.

[penguinofhonor]

... y'know, I'm not saying it's what's happening, but it is a possibility that different physiologies are reacting in different ways, right? Iirc, you have something similar with salt -- some people have absolutely zero problem with a very substantial salt diet (and, in fact, suffer problems when they don't have it), but others aren't as tolerant. Maybe some portions of the population do experience bread withdrawals for some ungodly reason.

Sounds like something someone should do a straight up study on, honestly. Full blast, genetic tests and the whole shebang. Hell, maybe even keep up on neural activity during the process, see if there's something different going on there. They could just be noceboing themselves into suffering, but it's also possible there's something more substantial going on.

I mean... I guess it's not impossible.  But I'd want more reasoning than some corner of the internet claiming they experience something before I'd say it's worth investigation. Bread addiction is something I'm comfortable writing off as psychosomatic.

[Helgoland]

I'm railing against the general parlance/use in the media. As a label 'addictive' is borked.

The problem is that it's binary. We really should start giving out evaluating addictiveness, on a scale from 0 to 1 for example.

[Reelya]

I saw a bit of Obama's speech on immigration reform just now. It'll be good news if they start normalizing more undocumented residents, and they've made clear pretty stringent conditions for it to apply, 5+ years residency, no criminal record, have kids who are citizens or who have lived here most of their lives, and whatever else I forget.

Conservatives are convinced the whole deal is nothing but a vote grab on Obama's part. Ignoring the fact that the timing wouldn't make even a lick of sense for that.

Obama asked a good question: would we really want to live in an America which rounded up 10-20 million people and put them in camps, including mothers and their children? Because the options are, (1) go full Stalin on these peasants or (2) fix their residency papers, or (3) continue to do nothing about it. The opposition politicians are firmly in the "do nothing" camp, because they know (1) is crazy, and they don't want to do (2) because their voter base are rednecks.