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[Leafsnail]

Hnn... disregarding the rest of the conversation, clinical trials -- in the states, at least -- are not quite as rigorous (or corruption proof, it seems some days) as I'd prefer, m'self. Might not mean much, in practice.

That's true.  But any universally administered vaccine will have gone through a lot of trials all around the world, and one of them would probably have picked it up if it was secretly a mind control drug.

[GlyphGryph]

Yeah, honestly if the government's up to it's old tricks, the average middle class anti-vac proponents is NOT going to be the target - it's disadvantaged groups no one would miss or care about either way.

[Graknorke]

Hnn... disregarding the rest of the conversation, clinical trials -- in the states, at least -- are not quite as rigorous (or corruption proof, it seems some days) as I'd prefer, m'self. Might not mean much, in practice.

That's true.  But any universally administered vaccine will have gone through a lot of trials all around the world, and one of them would probably have picked it up if it was secretly a mind control drug.

Though it's pretty easy to tell it's not a mind control drug.
Because people are complaining. If I had a populace under mind control the last thing I would want them doing is discussing it.

[SalmonGod]

I just want to clarify: My position is that "Man, I wish I could shut down all these looney conspiracy theorists, but the god damn government keeps doing conspiracies!"

That's basically my position, too.  I don't agree with the anti-vaccers, at least the type as described earlier in this thread, but I can at least understand paranoia and difficulty making proper decisions about what to believe.  And I don't support measures that enable more conspiracy *fact* to be enacted in the future.  Mock and shame the anti-vaccers all you want.  Encourage people to get their vaccinations.  I agree like 95%.  But making it mandatory?... breaking down the fundamental notion that a person deserves to control what they put into their bodies opens all kinds of doors to worse problems than the one you're trying to solve.

Hnn... disregarding the rest of the conversation, clinical trials -- in the states, at least -- are not quite as rigorous (or corruption proof, it seems some days) as I'd prefer, m'self. Might not mean much, in practice.

That's true.  But any universally administered vaccine will have gone through a lot of trials all around the world, and one of them would probably have picked it up if it was secretly a mind control drug.

Though it's pretty easy to tell it's not a mind control drug.
Because people are complaining. If I had a populace under mind control the last thing I would want them doing is discussing it.

You've got that completely wrong.  You want them discussing it, but looking ridiculous for it.  I think one of the most difficult things to deal with in America is information control isn't absolute.  Most things are known to people who really dig for the truth.  But when only a minority bothers to actually do that on any given subject and mainstream sources of information say the opposite thing, the person who knows the truth tends to look really ridiculous.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

But making it mandatory?... breaking down the fundamental notion that a person deserves to control what they put into their bodies opens all kinds of doors to worse problems than the one you're trying to solve.

Vaccines are not just about the individual. They are a cure that requires societal investment, or it will be ultimately of little use. We see how well it goes when it is voluntary, from the anti-vaccers to individuals such as yourself, who draw a line of what vaccines are "necessary".

Besides, they're just about mandatory anyway. You can't enter primary or secondary education without proof of active vaccination, and I'm sure there are other places proof is needed as well.

[misko27]

You've got that completely wrong.  You want them discussing it, but looking completely ridiculous for it.

Oh god man this is completely indistinguishable from a Birther post.

[Frumple]

Besides, they're just about mandatory anyway. You can't enter primary or secondary education without proof of active vaccination, and I'm sure there are other places proof is needed as well.

*coughs* Actually, you could waive most of them, last time I had to deal with that, and that may have only been for housing.* I think the one I'm in right now didn't even ask.

*I'm fairly sure I've got the big ones, but gods be buggered if I knew where the paperwork was, so I waived most of them >_>

[Max White]

The point is in the end vaccines aren't likely to be a government cover up for something, they are administered world wide with positive results. There is no rational reason to not get one. Hypothetical conspiracies will end with you wrapping your head in tinfoil for all the bad tings that might be happening. Does the US government have a history of horror level stupidity? Yea, but that isn't a license to claim everything in the world is an evil plot.

[misko27]

I'd also like to point out this is literally the same sentiment as the Taliban and highly conservative blocking largely US and UN led efforts to eradicate Polio. Actually, they suspect it might have pork in it, which is far more likely. They also suspect it might have aids, which is less likely.

[SalmonGod]

No, it's not, because I have not once said that people shouldn't get vaccinations or even be pressured to get them.  My literal sentiments were that I can understand how anti-vaccers get to where they are, even if I still disagree with them the same way you guys do, and that I don't support making vaccinations 100% mandatory.

[alexandertnt]

I still dont understand why they think that.

I understand that they think the Evil Government is working to reconfabulate their brains with their sufficiently-advanced-technology governments always seem to have. But I dont understand why, if they suspect this, they then proceed to ignore the overwhelming non-governmental evidence against this. Because of that, I dont understand why they are against vaccines, it just strikes me as people living in another world.

There is no rational basis for the fear, its just superstition.

[Putnam]

non-governmental

It's all governmental to them. All of it.

[Max White]

That is the thing about a conspiracy. It is never disproved, instead the number of people simply increases.

Anybody don't agree with you? They are brainwashed. Can they present evidence contrary to your claim? They are in on it.

[scriver]

Most vaccines are taken once in life. Flu shots are taken once every year. So congratulations, Evil Government. You've just mind controlled a bunch of third graders or a bunch of elderly gentlefolks for 3-4 weeks tops.

Because yeah. Vaccines would be a horribly inefficient way to administer "mind control chemicals" to people, because they're not taken often enough to actually to actually cause any kind of consistent behaviour. They'd need you to take "vaccine shots" like every 4-6 weeks for that to happen.

Now, if I were an Evil Government Conspiracist I'd much rather put tge mind control drug in insulin shots and lobby for increased diabetes in the populace. A shot you need to take every day, maybe even several times? That's a lot more efficient. Thank god people are so careful about what they eat and diabetes ie on its way dow- hey, wait a second...!

But nah. Still to inefficient. What your really want to do is work with the fast food chains, and cheap beer and soft drink producers instead of the medicine business. Wake up sheeple! McDonald's Coca Cola is brain controlling you!

[Leafsnail]

Shush, I won't be able to pass the Everybody Has Diabetes bill if you keep talking like that.