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Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1273317 times)

Sheb

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6870 on: July 30, 2013, 09:48:34 am »

The fact that no sub-saharian African country (save for South Africa, which is a bit peculiar) did, I doubt it. Whether it's due to climate, culture, colonization hand-off, permanent meddling or bad luck is left for you to decide.
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Virex

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6871 on: July 30, 2013, 10:43:37 am »

The fact that no sub-saharian African country (save for South Africa, which is a bit peculiar) did


Wait, Nigeria, Ghana, Cameroon and Botswana moved to Asia?
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6872 on: July 30, 2013, 11:38:18 am »

The fact that no sub-saharian African country (save for South Africa, which is a bit peculiar) did, I doubt it. Whether it's due to climate, culture, colonization hand-off, permanent meddling or bad luck is left for you to decide.

Someone here is forgetting South Africa is driving itself deeper and deeper into shit lately. I'm fairly sure the underreported genocide of whites who have the skills to keep things running helps.
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Virex

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6873 on: July 30, 2013, 12:24:06 pm »

Quote
Genocide
Quote
White people


Yeah, I'm going to need a very good source before I believe that's happening.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6874 on: July 30, 2013, 12:33:36 pm »

Quote
Genocide
Quote
White people


Yeah, I'm going to need a very good source before I believe that's happening.
http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html

In spite of popular belief white people are in fact people.

scriver

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6875 on: July 30, 2013, 01:15:57 pm »

This article was linked to me by a South-African on another forum not long ago: Are white afrikaners really being killed like flies? Why Steve Hofmeyr is wrong.
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Sergarr

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6876 on: July 30, 2013, 01:23:24 pm »

"the song “Kill the Farmer, Shoot the Boer”"

"President Jacob Zuma sang “Shoot the Boer” at the ANC Centenary Celebration event in January of 2012."

Huh.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6877 on: July 30, 2013, 03:50:02 pm »

This article was linked to me by a South-African on another forum not long ago: Are white afrikaners really being killed like flies? Why Steve Hofmeyr is wrong.
Whoever this Steve Hofmeyr is, he does look like he's exaggerated the claims based off of conjecture. However, unsurprisingly the South African Police Service and the National Planning commission are also downplaying what seems to be an issue. The South African Institute of Race Relations on Oct. 11th conceded and said that farmers were twice as likely to be murdered than regular citizens, and the death toll was above 3000 at 2006/7, although the SAPS stopped taking separate statistics on farm murders so the full extent will not be known. Some of these attacks were premeditated, consisted of an incredibly brutal nature and were organized and carried out in groups, with nothing taken. The Crime information Analysis Centre gave the statistic that 74% of the farm murders were against the ethnic minority white group.

GreatJustice

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6878 on: July 30, 2013, 05:05:06 pm »

The ANC are exceptionally stupid and have managed to run South Africa into the ground, for a variety of reasons. They're pretty tyrannical to boot, for example, sending cops in with machetes to murder striking miners. They aren't really a great example of an African success story, though Botswana, Nigeria, and several other countries have managed to achieve some level of improvement over the years.
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Owlbread

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6879 on: July 30, 2013, 05:11:39 pm »

I always think that if Nelson Mandela was all there he'd be criticising Jacob Zuma and what the ANC are doing. Isn't he suffering from dementia? It doesn't seem like he's really there anymore when I see him on the news.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6880 on: July 30, 2013, 05:15:02 pm »

The ANC are exceptionally stupid and have managed to run South Africa into the ground, for a variety of reasons. They're pretty tyrannical to boot, for example, sending cops in with machetes to murder striking miners. They aren't really a great example of an African success story, though Botswana, Nigeria, and several other countries have managed to achieve some level of improvement over the years.
What is Botswana doing right? They've done incredibly well so far, and I'm ignorant as to how they've done so.

GlyphGryph

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6881 on: July 30, 2013, 05:16:01 pm »

Avoided attention?
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Helgoland

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6882 on: July 30, 2013, 05:18:46 pm »

Inclusive institutions: Basic democracy before colonialism, keeping those structures alive during colonial times, not starting clan rivalries after the English left, didn't let some military leader take over... a whole list of things, really.
(All this is explained way better in "Why Nations Fail", go and buy it!)
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Owlbread

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6883 on: July 30, 2013, 08:15:03 pm »

After the British left you mean. But I'm very impressed with Botswana's growth, given the poverty they once suffered (one of the poorest countries in Africa when it became independent) you'd expect them to have gone the way of most de-colonised African states. I'd honestly like to visit.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 08:17:39 pm by Owlbread »
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GreatJustice

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6884 on: July 30, 2013, 08:36:53 pm »

The ANC are exceptionally stupid and have managed to run South Africa into the ground, for a variety of reasons. They're pretty tyrannical to boot, for example, sending cops in with machetes to murder striking miners. They aren't really a great example of an African success story, though Botswana, Nigeria, and several other countries have managed to achieve some level of improvement over the years.
What is Botswana doing right? They've done incredibly well so far, and I'm ignorant as to how they've done so.

-Unlike many of their neighbours, the Botswanans didn't lynch their foreigners or attack them, instead welcoming them into society. Race relations in general were quite a bit better in Botswana than in most other countries in southern Africa, which helped as well.
-They successfully established a representative democracy rather than swinging between militaristic plundering strongmen and socialist revolutionary groups every few years via civil war
-In the process, they encouraged foreign investment by guaranteeing property rights and making it clear that if you put money in Botswana it won't be nationalized for the "good of the people" next Friday
-They also avoided falling into the trap of becoming dependent on foreign aid, which has a tendency to decimate local farmers and ruin self sufficiency

Honestly, though, the big one is the fact that they avoided the cycle of "civil war-strongman loots/pillages - civil war- socialist nationalizes everything - civil war" etc, which makes all the difference. Hell, Somalia is significantly improved because they don't have a strong enough government to steal everything or nationalize it, allowing some actual productive domestic industries to crop up.
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The person supporting regenerating health, when asked why you can see when shot in the eye justified it as 'you put on an eyepatch'. When asked what happens when you are then shot in the other eye, he said that you put an eyepatch on that eye. When asked how you'd be able to see, he said that your first eye would have healed by then.

Professional Bridge Toll Collector?
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