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Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1290133 times)

Helgoland

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6390 on: July 13, 2013, 03:51:38 pm »

Quote
My youth, for what it’s worth, vanished when bits of brain splattered on me in Bosnia, when I was 23.
Pretty much sums up the article, along with the by now probably overused "War is hell."
Why aren't there more philantropists who finance people like that? Or, more modern: Why has nobody made a Kickstarter for her?

(Makes me wonder what the rewards would be... war souvenirs tend not to be pretty.)
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Pnx

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6391 on: July 13, 2013, 04:12:13 pm »

Because philanthropists are few and far between, they typically philanthropise modestly, mostly in things they're interested in.
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Truean

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6392 on: July 13, 2013, 07:47:37 pm »

Article about freelance journalists.  Read it.

I can relate to this and it is the problem with "freelancing" in general. Everything becomes an excuse for you not to be paid and you are put in the worst imaginable situations. This is especially true in the places and policies that have the backdoor, "nobody cares." You know, the stuff that happens to "other people," as opposed to the "average person" who doesn't want to pay for anything, especially something that's out of sight and out of mind.
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Solifuge

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6393 on: July 14, 2013, 12:28:06 am »

Wow... that's pretty horrible. You'd think that dangerous work would be better rewarded (or at least better respected) in a healthy free market. I've had it a bit rough Freelancing before, but at least I'm not getting shelled. That's... just bad.

Condoms break, IUD's run out of steam or just fall out, hormonal pills are nullified by unforeseeable body chemistry/medicine, vasectomies and tubal ligations inexplicably reverse themselves...
Stored correctly [i.e. not in a wallet, in the light or hot places], used correctly before expiry date and such condoms will not break.
New high-copper IUDs are 99% effective, but if you don't want to leave it to good chance use a condom.
Hormonal pills are about 95% effective, depending on which is taken and prevent pregnancy in various ways. If you don't want to leave it to good chance or unforeseen circumstances, condoms.

As someone who was conceived despite a properly-installed Copper IUD, and raised by an impoverished single mother, I can tell you that even 99.9% effectiveness isn't a sure enough thing. Not that I mind being here, but had abortion been an accessible option with a bit less social stigma attached, my family's life would likely have been considerably easier.
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Bauglir

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6394 on: July 14, 2013, 12:44:53 am »

Heck, I'm told I dodged a condom. Shit happens, but I don't actually think a position opposed to abortion cares about any of this. When somebody brings up these arguments, they reek of distraction - justifications for why abortion should be thought of as unnecessary, so why should you care if it's forbidden? Never reasons why it's wrong and should be forbidden. Those are much harder to find, since "I don't like it" is too painfully honest, and "My church says it's wrong" isn't an explanation that's flying anymore.

This post probably sounds overly bitter, but it's just an incredibly frustrating subject to me. Actually, that's not true - however frustrating it is for me, that extent is probably pretty credible to the women who've got to deal with the reality of it, and so have it far worse than some random guy.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 12:49:26 am by Bauglir »
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Truean

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6395 on: July 14, 2013, 01:27:27 am »

You were very probably conceived like everybody else, in a night of irresponsibility and alcohol.

(Human mating ritual error report) HMRER1A0001: the participants are fucking idiots, literally.

The issue has no simple answers, try as we might to delude ourselves that there are. Who gives a damn if its life or not. Does some chick have a duty to support it at all costs, even and especially if she can't? There's lots of life out there we don't support. If you're making the decision, then you should have to support the kid. Do not be surprised when welfare rolls increase if you support banning abortion. It's only what you're asking for. I believe if you are one of those rabid anti abortion people, you should be issued a baby who is addicted to crack to take care of, or four. People say they "care" about this kid?  ??? No they don't. They don't give a shit about anybody and they are only concerned with how their emotions make them feel. Take a stroll down the streets I do on a regular basis, the ones "concerned" people abandon the moment they can move to the suburbs. People don't care about and don't wanna fix anything, long as it they don't feel bad/don't have to think about it though....
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Max White

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6396 on: July 14, 2013, 01:40:37 am »

"My church says it's wrong" isn't an explanation that's flying anymore.
You say that, but then I recently had a run in with anti-gay marriage activists. Safe to say my confidence that I live in a secular society has been questioned.

I'm pretty sure 'My faith dictates law!' is still valid in the minds of too many.

EDIT: As for the issue of the responsibilities that come along with rights, I'm pretty sure that is taboo. If you even suggest that men should have the right to forfeit all paternal claim in exchange for not being financially responsible, and if the woman can't do it alone she has the right to get an abortion and not do it at all, you are met with cries of heresy. Mostly along the lines of 'Think of the children!', because you know, we can ignore a mans right to financial independents if we make an emotional enough plea.

Bauglir

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6397 on: July 14, 2013, 01:54:33 am »

Can we please not get into a discussion of men's rights on this. No, it's not because I necessarily disagree with you about the extent of a man's responsibility (as the case so often is, my belief here is too complicated to insert into a parenthetical note), but because it's going to get the thread hijacked for a dozen pages by people complaining about men being victimized by feminism for the umpteenth time. This request has nothing to do with taboo, and more to do with the demonstrable effects on the thread every time somebody brings up how men are also screwed over by social assumptions.

I'm not even asking that we forever ban all discussion of the topic in-thread. I'm just asking that it not be yet another tangent from an argument about misogyny, because when people are talking about how women are marginalized, a line of discussion started off by, "But what about the men!?" just doesn't fit very well. Next time the thread is dying and you have a good article or something to link, or however else conversations get started in here in a way that isn't a spin-off, please post it then. We can have a fantastic discussion without having to make it the traditional Suffering Olympics, the wonderful games where everybody loses and hates everybody else for also losing.

EDIT: Hell, if you could just frame it in a way that doesn't make it part of the discussion we were already having, that would be fantastic. You don't even have to wait, we can switch over to that conversation right now as long as we aren't implicitly trying to compare it to how women are doing these days.

EXTRA EDIT: And if, some time in the future, we do have this discussion in a way that isn't setting itself up for failure, and somebody tries to wedge women's rights into it, I promise that I will make a similar plea if I post at all. And if I fail, you can redirect me to this post and I'll feel like an ass. Some mocking of me would probably be in order, too, I would have it coming and you have my explicit permission.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 02:06:51 am by Bauglir »
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

MonkeyHead

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6398 on: July 14, 2013, 03:06:55 am »

So George Zimmerman is cleared of all charges. Fair enough, I could accept the courts ruling, were it not for the fact that a black 20 year old mother was given 20 years for firing warning shots above her abusive husband.

Seriously, some things do not add up, and this is one of them. White male goes free after actually shooting someone. Black female goes to jail after jusitifiably using minimum force to protect herself. Fucking Florida...

Edit: Oh, I see this has been brought up in the Rage thread already. Whoops.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 03:10:47 am by MonkeyHead »
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Frumple

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6399 on: July 14, 2013, 03:21:22 am »

Yeah, latter case started being discussed with this post, for those interested.

Does anyone know of, like, a better article on the subject? That one was... frankly, bloody close to outright false on some things. Like the goddamn headline. She was apparently given 20 years for attempted murder, not for firing warning shots. Something a bit more actually informative would be nice... would check myself, but I should seriously be sleeping right now :-\
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 03:23:34 am by Frumple »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6400 on: July 14, 2013, 06:06:40 am »

White male goes free after actually shooting someone. Black female goes to jail after jusitifiably using minimum force to protect herself. Fucking Florida...
Hahaahahahahahahaa

Frumple

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6401 on: July 14, 2013, 07:07:36 am »

Y'know... I just noticed that, now that I'm actually awake. Wasn't Zimmerman hispanic? Gotta' get them facts straight, it was a latino male, not a white male.

Also firing off a weapon isn't considered minimum force; possibly justifiable, but definitely not minimal. Also things were apparently more complicated than the linked article described and, well, there may have been a reason the person in question was hit with an attempted murder charge. Or may not have been and it was more racial/social bullshit. Article doesn't give enough actual bloody information to be able to say!

News in this damned country makes me want to strangle reporters :-\
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Leafsnail

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6402 on: July 14, 2013, 07:49:42 am »

White and hispanic aren't really mutually exclusive - Zimmerman is both.  In any case, it's an absolute disgrace that he got away with stalking and killing an unarmed teenager.

e: It may have been the correct decision under the law, but that would make the law pretty fucked up
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Frumple

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6403 on: July 14, 2013, 07:51:06 am »

Th'law in question is pretty fucked up, yeah.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #6404 on: July 14, 2013, 08:39:16 am »

White and hispanic aren't really mutually exclusive - Zimmerman is both.  In any case, it's an absolute disgrace that he got away with stalking and killing an unarmed teenager.

e: It may have been the correct decision under the law, but that would make the law pretty fucked up
No, Zimmerman's father was white and his mother was Peruvian, that makes him Hispanic. In any case, it's an absolute disgrace that people are willing to ignore the evidence so long as they get to hoist their "white people are racists oppressing the black people" narrative.
He didn't stalk him, he was on the neighbourhood watch after there had been 16 reported burglaries. He followed a suspicious person in his car at a distance, as was his duty in the watch and Trayvon fled. George called dispatch to report a suspicious person and stopped following. Trayvon turned back and initiated the conflict, which George lost very quickly. This is when he shot Trayvon once, Trayvon said "ok you got me," and George fled.
The law allows you to justify force - even if the result is in someone dying, if it means you can defend yourself and not have to simply pitifully accept violence directed at you, as should be the case.
Spoiler: Wounds within (click to show/hide)
The male human body is built for fighting, it doesn't need a weapon. It suffices on its own innate strengths.
The only part of this whole debacle that has been racist has been from the people who keep bringing up how this creepy-ass cracker is as white as Polar bears or something and that instantly makes him guilty and Trayvon instantly the innocent angel martyr. National news has given out this guy's name, the names of his family, his social security number and deliberately withheld and misrepresented evidence. Things he was quoted as saying went from "fucking punks" to "fucking assholes" to "fucking coons," despite only the first ever having been said.
All this has served to do is prove that in the name of dividing the races of America, nothing is sacred, not even facts.
Why are trials even televised if instead of watching them people instead only listen to the conjecture made by the news?

Part of being impartial is that you also hold someone to be innocent until proven guilty. And what has been seen in the trial is not only has he not been proven guilty, but he has also been proven innocent beyond a reasonable doubt. If anyone still believes he's guilty, I'd be happy to present the court evidence or better yet just go watch the whole trial yourself and make your own judgement, it's all up on the internets.
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