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[DungeonJerk]

I forgot about that fact with the Tolkien elves. But yeah, no matter how you slice it. There is always a chance that immortality can be a curse more then a benefit.

I suppose its how you look at it, and how its applied. But, I personally believe that it would take some damn skippy circumstances and a particular person to make it worthwhile.

Also, what if everyone's immortal and the sun dies out. Which I think science says it eventually will. Frozen immortals anyone?

Edit: And this is what happens when Dungeon has a brainfart. He says something damn near opposite to what he said earlier >_<

[mendota]

whitematter production explosively progresses until about age 30, then declines

Whitematter is the neural material that is mylenated, and which connects portions of the brain together.

Without reversing this trend, which was the thesis of my earlier post, the immortal person is on a 1 way trip to demensia.

I guess I'm not seeing how cognitive decline is equal to hardwiring. I'd agree that an immortal cursed with normal biology has only a vegetative state to look forward to, but I still don't see any evidence that memory is literally hardwired into the brain.

[wierd]

Hardwiring was probably a bad way to put it.

The intention was this:

Learning a new skill requires plasticity of the white matter, so that the connections associated with mastering that skill can be forged. Muscle memory is an example of this. As people get older, the rate of whitematter production, coupled with a finite volume in the cranium would require that old connections be deleted, and new ones created with far more viggor than is seen in current brain evaluations.

Eventually the subject will not be able to learn anything new otherwise after a certain age.

Whitematter connections to the hypocampus and thalamus are associated with the correlation, processing, and storage of sensory information, and as such plays a fundamental role in memory retention.

The chemical chains in the greymatter associated with memories may be present, but the whitematter fibers permitting correlation of that information will become increasingly difficult to create without radically changing the cellular activities of the immortal's brain.

This is similar to what is seen in alzheimer's patients, and is why canabis can actually help them with their dimentia to a limited degree. (Canabinol found in weed stimulates the retrograde signalling pathway which is involved in axon formation and long term memory potentiation. The action of the substance on the diseased white matter causes new pathways to form, and still healthy ones to learn new tricks.)

[DuckBoy2]

Luc Bakecakes is a girl.  She learned the secrets of life and death shortly before she married and shortly after becoming obsessed with her own mortality, and taught them to several necromancers over the years.  She still lives happily in Loverauthors.  I plan to adventure there when I get the chance. 

Ive very much enjoyed the neuroscience so far, especially this most recent argument that the only way you could be immortal and not watch your skills slowly deteriorate is to be high on weed the whole time. 

But you know who else is immortal and spends all their time growing weeds... ELVES!  Magma him!!!

[dirty foot]

I've never seen the "hardwired" theory ever substantiated.

Eternal life would assume the body's ability to regenerate much better, faster, and...forever. With science proving that the brain actually does heal, I find hardwiring to be an old school theory. Also, there are many older people that adjust just fine to the world's changes. Being healthy is the most important part.

[vintermann]

Hey guys, I know "brain in vat" can probably be approximated in Dwarf Fortress¹, but can't you at least put off the silly philosophical discussion until we have minecarts?!

_{1. As long as it's a prepared brain.}

[wierd]

Brain plasticity is quite remarkable, but imperfect. The fact that advanced alzhiemers patients can even talk at all is a testiment to that fact. (Their brains look like pustulent swiss cheese)

The problem is that adult stemcells do not turn into new nervous tissue, with the exception being in the olfactory bulb.  What grows are axons and dentritic connections.

Plasticity is the migration, pruning, and creation of those connections.

Mylenation is a very biologically expensive process, (gial helper cells spend most of their active lives slowly depositing the mylein sheath around their client axons) so the brain establishes primary axon routes prior to mylenation. Once mylenated, the axon is essentially dedicated hardware, and only the dentrite connections change.

Luc Bakecakes is a girl.  She learned the secrets of life and death shortly before she married and shortly after becoming obsessed with her own mortality, and taught them to several necromancers over the years.  She still lives happily in Loverauthors.  I plan to adventure there when I get the chance. 

Ive very much enjoyed the neuroscience so far, especially this most recent argument that the only way you could be immortal and not watch your skills slowly deteriorate is to be high on weed the whole time. 

But you know who else is immortal and spends all their time growing weeds... ELVES!  Magma him!!!

So, she is basically the evil version of strawberry shortcake?

Perhaps a "kindly old grandmotherly" type who bakes cookies and cakes while raising the dead? For some reason I have no difficulty at all seeing this....

[Zealous]

But yeah, no matter how you slice it. There is always a chance that immortality can be a curse more then a benefit.

It's really the fact that we are imperfect, and live in an imperfect world that this is the case. Notice that one way or another we bring most of our misery on ourselves, or it is the direct result of somebody else's actions/failure to act. For beings who in the Aristotillian sense perfectly pursue arete (something like virtue and purpose if they were one in the same), neither life or death is intrinsically a bad thing. They are simple facts to be considered, and nothing more.

[Sus]

By Luc BakeCakes



This has completely changed my opinion of necromancers.  They are futurists trying to bring about a utopian paradise where everyone can live forever!

I'd say you just found the DF version of David Pearce.

[DungeonJerk]

But yeah, no matter how you slice it. There is always a chance that immortality can be a curse more then a benefit.

It's really the fact that we are imperfect, and live in an imperfect world that this is the case. Notice that one way or another we bring most of our misery on ourselves, or it is the direct result of somebody else's actions/failure to act. For beings who in the Aristotillian sense perfectly pursue arete (something like virtue and purpose if they were one in the same), neither life or death is intrinsically a bad thing. They are simple facts to be considered, and nothing more.

True, very true.

[Psieye]

Pseudo-prophesy:

And lo, the day when DF allowed souls to be transferred to different bodies, did the argument of immortality spring up again. This time however, it extended to reincarnation (with or without full memory/mental stats retention) immortality.

[Naryar]

So what the hell is a legendary sheep ?

[RAKninja]

That Necromancer proposes something that would best be locked up in the very depth's of hell itself and out of dwarf hand's.

*The book falls into hell, a demon spends 100 years learning to read and mastering the arts told of in the book.  Dwarves poke a hole into hell and he flies out, he goes to the highest peak and shouts the incantation.  All dead rise up and live again, everyone immediately heals and will now live forever.*

Demon:  "Now chaos can consume the world, I have fulfilled my purpose!" *insert evil laugh*

i actually had a demon lawgiver in one of my worlds who has written many books, including the gem "hell, in the time of my ancestors"

he also wrote a book about himself and a gem.  daring of him considering he came to power imitating a god.

[Loud Whispers]

So what the hell is a legendary sheep ?

What the hell is a legendary milker?

[RAKninja]

So what the hell is a legendary sheep ?

What the hell is a legendary milker?

you see legendary milker, i see dabbling axe-user.