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Author Topic: Hammertime - Here Comes the Hammer [Game Over]  (Read 45608 times)

Andrew425

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #150 on: March 10, 2012, 02:44:02 am »

Native I try to answer your questions, why don't you extend me the same courtesy?


Urist McMeanie
Quote
His actions are aimless. So he's either very confused or very good at acting confused. And he's just not that good an actor.
You insult me good sir.
Are you saying that you are that good an actor?
[/quote]

I'd like to think that I have good acting skills. Why must I be confused?

Oh and before I forget unvote.
Got a reason to go with that action?

Ya, I went after penng009 to see what would happen. Since my only reason for voting him was a bluff now that its been called I have no reason to continue it.

Andrew425: Not a good enough reason my friend, I played you in the last BM and you seemed to read over everything there.  Frankly, you just reek of incompetence this game, if you are town (which is rather unlikely) you're going to be a hindrance to the scum-hunting effort later in the game.

I was less busy/more interested during the last BM.

I have no idea if he's scum or not. Am I not allowed to asking leading questions? It's a much better RVS question then just some random blather.

Not the question I asked. I wanted to know whether you knew he was town or not. Yours is almost an answer to my question.

And... what? If asking Phantom of the Library how he would help the town was a leading question, then that meant you wanted him to give some upbeat and positive but ultimately worthless answer so that he would look more town. In which case, that doesn't look very good for him, and it doesn't look very good for you.

Do you actually know what you are talking about at any given moment in the game? How about you give me a better explanation of what you were hoping to find out with that question, because you asking him a leading question doesn't make any sense.

I don't know if he is a town or not. I wasn't hoping to find out anything at all. Just a RVS question to get the talk going. I just hate standard RVS questions so I come up with my own.


Andrew: The content of your posts is so meaningless, you might as well not be posting. Seriously, your incompetence is staggering.

No you.

Have you ever played against scum Andrew? If not, how can you be sure that he's not like this as scum?

Scum Andrew is a much more devious fellow.



Scumhunting comes tomorrow, when I have time to follow this
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May the mass times acceleration be with you

Jim Groovester

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #151 on: March 10, 2012, 03:22:32 am »

He voted Andrew here, at which point Orangebottle, penngo and Jim had already expressed their suspicions (and Phantom had suggested that something was off about his statement), without adding much of anything to the case they had already laid out (such as it was and what there was of it). The fact that of the three others only Orangebottle had actually voted Andrew is not terribly significant to the existence of a wagon. So, bandwagoning.

As for OMGUSing, what else do you call it when someone jumps up and down about how scummy it is to scumhunt him simply because it is scummy to scumhunt him? Do you, in any of his tirades about how unfair it is to pick on little old NativeForeigner, see any particularly compelling explanation of why he should be allowed to lurk for the rest of the day after jumping on the Andrewwagon?

If that was your answer, what the hell was stopping you from giving it the first time NativeForeigner asked? Why did I have to vote you get it out of you?

Doing things only in response to pressure is scummy, dude.

As for OMGUSing, what else do you call it when someone jumps up and down about how scummy it is to scumhunt him simply because it is scummy to scumhunt him?

Defending himself. Great job generalizing arguments in the least flattering way possible.

OMGUSing is a bullshit accusation in the best of cases and I'm surprised you listed it as one of your arguments against NativeForeigner. Mostly because it never means anything ever. Any material for the lynch, huh?

Do you, in any of his tirades about how unfair it is to pick on little old NativeForeigner, see any particularly compelling explanation of why he should be allowed to lurk for the rest of the day after jumping on the Andrewwagon?

Not really.

But that's not what I asked about, now is it? And before you leap on this statement because you're just salivating about it, he should not be checking out after voting, because this game runs on hammers, not deadlines, and requires a simple majority instead of just the largest number of votes on a player which is much harder to get. But I don't want to make this any more about NativeForeigner than it already is, because I want to make it about you.

NativeForeigner, why are you checking out after voting, when this game runs on hammers, not deadlines, and requires a simple majority instead of just the largest number of votes on a player, which is much harder to get, and why aren't you trying to get it? I think it's clear that this game is going to require a lot more promoting of a case than what we normally do, so why aren't you making efforts to that effect?
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NativeForeigner

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #152 on: March 10, 2012, 03:38:24 am »

This weekend's fixin' to be a busy one. Don't expect any content from me until Sunday at the soonest.

Jim: I would love to promote my case against Andrew even more, but he's giving me nothing to work with. My case is built on his uselessness, his odd town claim, and his inconsistencies. I can only push that so far. While I would love to see Andrew lynched, I'm considering changing my vote to McNoble because of that. Noble's case is one I can actually promote effectively (in other words: his responses are more than "No you").

McNoble: I'll get to you after my weekend.

Andrew: Seriously? Come on.
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Quit being such a dick, you dick.
Maybe if you weren't such a dick you wouldn't be such a dick.

Urist McUselessNoble

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #153 on: March 10, 2012, 03:49:51 am »

If that was your answer, what the hell was stopping you from giving it the first time NativeForeigner asked?
The first time, he ladled on the snark so heavily that I mistook it for a rhetorical question. The second time, he put it in an EBWOP that I missed, because I wrote the post from the "quote" link rather than from copypastaing from the thread itself. There was no third time that I can find.

OMGUSing is a bullshit accusation in the best of cases and I'm surprised you listed it as one of your arguments against NativeForeigner. Mostly because it never means anything ever. Any material for the lynch, huh?
*shrug* The case stands with or without it.

But I actually do find it highly questionable that he jumps down the neck of the first person to scumhunt him, after doing bugger all other than bandwagoning a safe lynch. That you appear to not think so, or that it does not constitute an OMGUS, or that OMGUS is a weak scumtell... well, I'll keep that in mind. But, uh, I don't know that you're town yet, so you'll have to excuse me for reserving judgment on whether that was advice given in good faith.

As an aside, if I were doing "any material for a lynch" I would have jumped on either the Andrewwagon or the penngowagon. Which is why I'm pushing the people who did precisely that.

Do you, in any of his tirades about how unfair it is to pick on little old NativeForeigner, see any particularly compelling explanation of why he should be allowed to lurk for the rest of the day after jumping on the Andrewwagon?

Not really.

But that's not what I asked about, now is it?
Uh, yes it was. You asked whether I had a justification for claiming that he OMGUSed me. His principal line of defense thus far has been variations on "oh, I already jumped on the Andrewwagon, so my job is done for today and I get to lurk now. Therefore, it is scummy of you to point out that I am lurking."

If the premise of that defense were justified, then the conclusion would not be an OMGUS. The question of whether the premise is, in fact, justified is thus highly germane to the question of whether he is or is not OMGUSing.
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penngo009

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #154 on: March 10, 2012, 12:24:31 pm »

Okay, before I forget, unvote. Now either, Native or McUselessNoble must be scum, maybe even both, if they thought of a fine and dandy strategy. Though there are an outlandishly large amount of possibilities, I'm betting on that one of you are scum.

McUselessNoble- Do you really have any counter arguments......

Jim- You're voting him because he didn't answer a question?
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zombie urist

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #155 on: March 10, 2012, 01:29:17 pm »

Okay, before I forget, unvote. Now either, Native or McUselessNoble must be scum, maybe even both, if they thought of a fine and dandy strategy. Though there are an outlandishly large amount of possibilities, I'm betting on that one of you are scum.
Why do you think one of them is scum? Give me your reasons please.

Noobscum can just as easily be confused as noobtown. If they can't scumhunt as town, why would they play better as scum?
There's no reason to expect them to play better, but there is reason to expect them to be playing differently. For one, they have less reason to be confused.
Have you ever played against scum Andrew? If not, how can you be sure that he's not like this as scum?
No, and I can't, but if he's flaking both as town and scum, then it's a null tell, no?
What did you say about quote-mining earlier?
Why do you think Andrew is confused? Why would scum be any less confused than town? And why does the fact that his actions are aimless imply that he is confused?

Ya, I went after penng009 to see what would happen. Since my only reason for voting him was a bluff now that its been called I have no reason to continue it.
So what are you going to do now?

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Toaster

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1]
« Reply #156 on: March 11, 2012, 07:14:00 am »

Vote Count:

Jim Groovester:
NativeForeigner: Urist McUselessNoble
Phantom of The Library:
Urist McUselessNoble: zombie urist, Jim Groovester
Orangebottle:
Andrew425: Orangebottle, NativeForeigner, Phantom of The Library
Dariush:
penngo009: Dariush
zombie urist:

No Lynch:

Not voting: Andrew425, penngo009

With 9 alive, 5 votes to hammer.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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NativeForeigner

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #157 on: March 12, 2012, 01:24:50 am »

Penngo: So you're sure that one of us is scum. What are you doing to find out  which one it is?

McNoble: Because I don't have the time to pick apart your quote to reply, I'll just reply in order.

For reference:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-If I recall correctly, you were answering Jim, answering Zombie, asked Phantom to answer someone else's previous question, then prodded him with a question about him softballing you, and poked Andrew lightly with a couple of questions. A lot of defending and not much hunting going on there.

-Quote-mining at its finest. Did you just miss the rest of that line where I mentioned that it was indeed possible for me to give a few generic answers? Also where I pointed out that you probably wouldn't be satisfied with that and that it would ultimately be pointless? Sharing well-known scumtells is moot and wasn't the point of your question.

If you understand why I wouldn't want to share my own private list, then why are you still trying to give me crap about it?

-My God, way to cut out pretty much the entire paragraph. I mean, holy shit. It takes balls to ignore so much so blatantly. You want to talk about not paying attention to the game, how about you, you know, actually stop ignoring half of my arguments? Particularly the halves you apparently have no answer for.

PPE: I see you answered most of the rest of the paragraph at the end. I'd prefer if you kept segments together.

-Because you're trying to give me crap for focusing two players, and here you are focusing one.

-If you could do that over the internet, I'd be impressed. I would call that weak hunting.

You talk about a "watchful eye", but where's the response to the other half of my post? You know, the half that you have no answer for.

-Yes, there was a question mark, when I asked you how the hell I was actively evading anything. I mentioned the incompetence in the game, that's sort of an excuse, but the overlying point of the thing was to state that unless something big happened, you shouldn't expect a lot out of me until D2. Of course, you made something big happen, so congrats on that.

-Your vote is so big and scary. I'm so scared. The reason I don't have to prove anything to you? Because you're scum, plain and simple.

-Mmk.

-"Safe" lynch would make more sense. I still don't see how it condemns someone to be scum. Isn't voting obvscum almost always a safe lynch?

-One, I don't whine. Two, that's not deflecting. In no way did I tell you to attack those people, I asked why you weren't (which you've deflected every time by accusing me of deflecting).

-The questions were "Why aren't you?" not "Will you?"

-And it never crossed your mind that I had nothing interesting on anyone else, either? Or that I couldn't get anything more out of Andrew? Funny how it's okay for you to use that excuse, but you try to give me crap when I happen to be in that boat.


-Your case does not stand with or without it. Your case never stood. You tried to stack up a "case" and I huffed and I puffed and I blew your "case" away. You've yet to reestablish it in any meaningful way.

I only "jumped down" your neck because of how you went about hunting me. You asked me a scummy question, I picked up on it and retaliated. You tried to bring me down with an extremely weak case, you fail to answer important, possibly incriminating questions or justify your arguments, and you continually push weak tells. That's pretty scummy, the fact that you attacked me first isn't going to keep me from scumhunting you.

As for grabbing "any material for a lynch", of course you wouldn't jump on Andrew or Penngo. Andrew's your buddy and nobody is really aggressive towards Penngo.

-I'd like to know how I was using that for defense. My primary line of defense against your lurking accusations was that I wasn't getting anything out of Andrew and nothing interesting was happening. I also never attacked you for calling me out about lurking. I attacked you at first for asking what I was looking for.
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Yeah, you're a dick, NativeForeigner.
Quit being such a dick, you dick.
Maybe if you weren't such a dick you wouldn't be such a dick.

Jim Groovester

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #158 on: March 12, 2012, 04:26:29 am »

Jim: I would love to promote my case against Andrew even more, but he's giving me nothing to work with. My case is built on his uselessness, his odd town claim, and his inconsistencies. I can only push that so far. While I would love to see Andrew lynched, I'm considering changing my vote to McNoble because of that. Noble's case is one I can actually promote effectively (in other words: his responses are more than "No you").

What's wrong with asking people, "Hey, you know who's useless lurking scum? Andrew425" over and over again?

Okay, before I forget, unvote. Now either, Native or McUselessNoble must be scum, maybe even both, if they thought of a fine and dandy strategy. Though there are an outlandishly large amount of possibilities, I'm betting on that one of you are scum.

Why do you think it's either or, and if you do, who do you think it is?

Jim- You're voting him because he didn't answer a question?

I'm voting him because he dodged a question.

If that was your answer, what the hell was stopping you from giving it the first time NativeForeigner asked?
The first time, he ladled on the snark so heavily that I mistook it for a rhetorical question. The second time, he put it in an EBWOP that I missed, because I wrote the post from the "quote" link rather than from copypastaing from the thread itself. There was no third time that I can find.

Even if it was snark, it still demanded a response.

You laid out your reasons for suspecting them. NativeForeigner responded to each of your points, and then you neglected to respond to three of them. What does it speak to your case if you drop three out of four points in your summation after a single turnaround with your target? Nothing good, that's for sure.

Fair enough about missing the EBWOP.

OMGUSing is a bullshit accusation in the best of cases and I'm surprised you listed it as one of your arguments against NativeForeigner. Mostly because it never means anything ever. Any material for the lynch, huh?
*shrug* The case stands with or without it.

This speaks to my point about going for any material for a lynch.

If the case stand with or without it, then it has no relevance at all to your case. Meaning, you shouldn't have brought it up in the first place. That you did means you thought it would be convincing, or you were mistaken about its significance. I can't decide which.

But I actually do find it highly questionable that he jumps down the neck of the first person to scumhunt him, after doing bugger all other than bandwagoning a safe lynch. That you appear to not think so, or that it does not constitute an OMGUS, or that OMGUS is a weak scumtell... well, I'll keep that in mind. But, uh, I don't know that you're town yet, so you'll have to excuse me for reserving judgment on whether that was advice given in good faith.

No, really. It's a scumtell of absolutely no import.

Only noobs straight up OMGUS people, i.e., a vote solely in response to a vote. More experienced players usually find reasons to vote the player voting them, and even though it's technically an OMGUS, it doesn't matter for shit, since players can find excellent and even telling reasons for their vote in response to the vote of another. What we typically said was, before this got pounded into the head of every player on the board so much that this knowledge became implicit, that it's not an OMGUS if there are good reasons behind it.

As an aside, if I were doing "any material for a lynch" I would have jumped on either the Andrewwagon or the penngowagon. Which is why I'm pushing the people who did precisely that.

If it's WIFOM and you know it, clap your hands.

*clap clap*

Going against the grain with lynches is actually a very strong scum move. That you're not voting for Andrew425 doesn't really prove anything about you.

Uh, yes it was.

With your reply, I've lost sight of whatever it was I was originally trying to get at.
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Dariush

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #159 on: March 12, 2012, 07:04:09 am »

As an aside, if I were doing "any material for a lynch" I would have jumped on either the Andrewwagon or the penngowagon. Which is why I'm pushing the people who did precisely that.
You know what? Go fuck yourself, McNoble. Not only have you been extremely passive and non-commital all day, now you give an incredibly scummy explanation that just stinks of 'Hey look at me I'm so town I don't follow any bandwagons!'. Also dodging questions.

Penngo is still scum, however.

Toaster

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1]
« Reply #160 on: March 12, 2012, 08:13:28 am »

Vote Count:

Jim Groovester:
NativeForeigner: Urist McUselessNoble
Phantom of The Library:
Urist McUselessNoble: zombie urist, Jim Groovester, Dariush
Orangebottle:
Andrew425: Orangebottle, NativeForeigner, Phantom of The Library
Dariush:
penngo009:
zombie urist:

No Lynch:

Not voting: Andrew425, penngo009

With 9 alive, 5 votes to hammer.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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NativeForeigner

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #161 on: March 12, 2012, 05:10:59 pm »

Jim:

What's wrong with asking people, "Hey, you know who's useless lurking scum? Andrew425" over and over again?

I find that repetitive and not very effective. I really don't think that will get someone lynched D1, even if they are scum.

On that note, unvote. My case on Andrew is going nowhere. However, my case on McNoble is progressing well.
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Yeah, you're a dick, NativeForeigner.
Quit being such a dick, you dick.
Maybe if you weren't such a dick you wouldn't be such a dick.

Andrew425

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #162 on: March 12, 2012, 06:31:53 pm »

Andrew: Seriously? Come on.

You're serious enough to put him one vote away from a hammer?


Ya, I went after penng009 to see what would happen. Since my only reason for voting him was a bluff now that its been called I have no reason to continue it.
So what are you going to do now?

I'm going to scumhunt to the best of my abilities.


Native: Why do you assume i'm Urist McUseless' scumbuddy?

penngo009: Why aren't you joining into the conversation?


I'm going to hold off my vote until Urist answers both Jims and Native's questions.
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NativeForeigner

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #163 on: March 12, 2012, 06:40:57 pm »

Andrew: Seriously? Come on.

You're serious enough to put him one vote away from a hammer?

I voted him, didn't I?

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Yeah, you're a dick, NativeForeigner.
Quit being such a dick, you dick.
Maybe if you weren't such a dick you wouldn't be such a dick.

NativeForeigner

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Re: Hammertime - Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em [Day 1] [Replace Needed]
« Reply #164 on: March 12, 2012, 06:43:11 pm »

EBWODP:

Whoops, didn't mean to click post.

Native: Why do you assume i'm Urist McUseless' scumbuddy?

Because I think you're scum for reasons previously stated.

I'm going to scumhunt to the best of my abilities.

Then why aren't you asking McNoble any questions?
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Yeah, you're a dick, NativeForeigner.
Quit being such a dick, you dick.
Maybe if you weren't such a dick you wouldn't be such a dick.
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