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[Garath]

Oh yes! trading pitchblende to the elven caravan!

[Jingles]

I love pitchblende.  It gives me great pleasure to know that my dwarfs, even in their "happiest" moments, are being slowly poisoned to death in the most malign way.

[Loud Whispers]

I love pitchblende.  It gives me great pleasure to know that my dwarfs, even in their "happiest" moments, are being slowly poisoned to death in the most malign way.

On the mug is an image of Jingles surrounded by Dwarfs. Jingles is rising to the position of chief medical Dwarf. The Dwarfs are vomiting.

[wierd]

Remember, the Latin word for lead is the root of the word "plumbing".  The Romans used it for all sorts of water systems, yet there is no record of mass death due to lead poisoning, as the lawyers would have you believe.  Thus, lead barrels make perfect sense, provided that the lead is strong enough to prevent them from being damaged from normal use.

The romans also routinely used "sugar of Lead" (lead acetate, iirc?) As a non-nutrative sweetener. There is rather profound evidence of rampant lead poisoning from exhumed roman corpses, with prevelence in the nobility. (The use of metal cooking pots was a luxury and status symbol. Lower classes used earthenware vessels.)

Simply because the ancient romans didn't comprehend heavy metal poisoning (remember, we are dealing with the "4 bodily humors" mindset here...), does not mean it wasn't rampant.  It would certainly explain the....aberrant... behavior of several noteworthy members of roman nobility.

[Kilroy the Grand]

Remember, the Latin word for lead is the root of the word "plumbing".  The Romans used it for all sorts of water systems, yet there is no record of mass death due to lead poisoning, as the lawyers would have you believe.  Thus, lead barrels make perfect sense, provided that the lead is strong enough to prevent them from being damaged from normal use.

The romans also routinely used "sugar of Lead" (lead acetate, iirc?) As a non-nutrative sweetener. There is rather profound evidence of rampant lead poisoning from exhumed roman corpses, with prevelence in the nobility. (The use of metal cooking pots was a luxury and status symbol. Lower classes used earthenware vessels.)

Simply because the ancient romans didn't comprehend heavy metal poisoning (remember, we are dealing with the "4 bodily humors" mindset here...), does not mean it wasn't rampant.  It would certainly explain the....aberrant... behavior of several noteworthy members of roman nobility.

"Vitruvius is well known and often cited as one of the earliest surviving sources to have advised that lead should not be used to conduct drinking water, recommending clay pipes or masonry channels. He comes to this conclusion in Book VIII of De Architectura after empirical observation of the apparent laborer illnesses in the lead foundries of his time"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvius

[wierd]

Galen the physician also identified the brain as the seat of conciousness via medical experimentation on animals (and mangled human patients from war and arena alike), but still failed to unseat the aristotilian view that it was in the heart for many hundreds of years after his death, despite being the preeminent physician of the ancient world.

What I am getting at is that a cherry picked example does not convey the truth of a complete system. The vast majority or formans did not comprehend heavy metal poisoning, as evidenced by leaden cookware, leaden pipes, and heavy use of lead-sugar.

Much like ancient physicians thought that illness was related to the balance of 4 "humors" in the body, and that the heart was where the "soul" lived, despite empirical research from Galen the physician to the contrary. This is evidenced by the flagrant administration of bleeding by leeches well into the 16th century, and the "Grimoire" on magical invokation up until that time.

I was however ignorant of this observation. Thank you for it.

[Kilroy the Grand]

No problem, I remembered watching something about it on the history channel

[thegoatgod_pan]

Remember, the Latin word for lead is the root of the word "plumbing".  The Romans used it for all sorts of water systems, yet there is no record of mass death due to lead poisoning, as the lawyers would have you believe.

Apparently roman water had so much calcium in it the inside of the pipes tended to get coated, it did increase the stillbirth rate though.

Great, now it just occurred to me that DF should simulate stillbirth. I'm a horrible person.

It does. Miscarriages happen to hurt, dehydrated or starving, or even very unhappy dwarves.

[wierd]

Yes, but making babies in that artifact pitchblende bed (menacing with spikes of lead, cinnebar, and cobaltite) does not produce forgotten beast eldritch horrors, and similarly "terrifying" malformities in miscarried fetuses as it would irl, especially given dwarven hygiene.

(That is to say, horrible deformities and abominations like "harlequin fetus", "terratomas", and "lithopedians" are probably not going to show up in DF. [Lithopedian cabochons would be suitably horrible to warrant being modded in though. Same with lithopedian stone crafts.)

[krenshala]

Pitchblende is normally about the same level of radio-activity as granite and marble.  In most places it will be slightly higher than normal background radiation, but still nowhere near damage inducing levels.  There is also some decent (but not conclusive) evidence that low levels of radiation actually improve health, so depending on the radiation level is puts off, combined with the radiation tolerance of dwarves in general, that wonderful bed may be just the thing for healthy dwarven shields children.

[wierd]

The problem is not the pitchblende itself.

The problem is the decay biproducts.  For example, polonium, and radon gasses.

Dwarves are subterrenean. They don't get good ventilation. (Miasma anyone? Hehehe.) Radon is a clear, colorless, ordorless gas. It is released from uranium as the uranium decays. Even small traces of uranium will release measurable levels of radon. This is why radon is a serious problem in some central plains states, like my own.

The sand and gravel used to make concrete has harmless trace quantities of uranium ores in it, and slowly releases radon gas over time. (Far lower concentrations than a formation of pitchblende would.) The radon itself isn't terribly radioactive either, but decays fairly rapidly into polonium, which is highly carcinogenic. This manifests as a fine white powder of polonium oxide which is normally invisisble and or indistinguishable from ordinary dust.

Inhalation of radon has the risk of spontaneous decay of the radon in the lungs, turning into polonium which oxidizes and deposits in the lungs, and accumulates like black lung. Over time, it causes serious health issues.

Take for instance, the polonium present in tobbacco. When you smoke the tobbacco, the polonium sticks in your lungs, irradiating them. Smoking a pack of cigs is equivalent to several chest xrays. This is one of the many reasons smoking causes cancer.

Sleeping in that artifact pitchblende bed, in a poorly ventilated, enclosed space for prolonged periods of time will have measurable health risks.

[claer_runway]

Sleeping in that artifact pitchblende bed, in a poorly ventilated, enclosed space for prolonged periods of time will have measurable health risks.

But it's an artifact, which means it's sooooooo comfy.

[wierd]

Urist McNoble cancels sleep in comfy bed: Coughing up blood.

[Kofthefens]

The problem is not the pitchblende itself.

The problem is the decay biproducts.  For example, polonium, and radon gasses.

Dwarves are subterrenean. They don't get good ventilation. (Miasma anyone? Hehehe.) Radon is a clear, colorless, ordorless gas. It is released from uranium as the uranium decays. Even small traces of uranium will release measurable levels of radon. This is why radon is a serious problem in some central plains states, like my own.

The sand and gravel used to make concrete has harmless trace quantities of uranium ores in it, and slowly releases radon gas over time. (Far lower concentrations than a formation of pitchblende would.) The radon itself isn't terribly radioactive either, but decays fairly rapidly into polonium, which is highly carcinogenic. This manifests as a fine white powder of polonium oxide which is normally invisisble and or indistinguishable from ordinary dust.

Inhalation of radon has the risk of spontaneous decay of the radon in the lungs, turning into polonium which oxidizes and deposits in the lungs, and accumulates like black lung. Over time, it causes serious health issues.

Take for instance, the polonium present in tobbacco. When you smoke the tobbacco, the polonium sticks in your lungs, irradiating them. Smoking a pack of cigs is equivalent to several chest xrays. This is one of the many reasons smoking causes cancer.

Sleeping in that artifact pitchblende bed, in a poorly ventilated, enclosed space for prolonged periods of time will have measurable health risks.

You know, I learn far more here in the forums than I do in school

[wierd]

Only because the teachers aren't allowed to talk about cool stuff.

That happens in college. (The above is a reader's digest condensed version of my chem prof's lecture on radioactive isotopes from general chem. God I loved college.)