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Wait for Next Version, Use current (.40.24,) or use older release (.34.11?)

Wait for the next release. I want usable mugs damn it!
- 55 (71.4%)
We can use the current one. I like the big trees and slightly smarter dorfs.
- 17 (22.1%)
I'll take .34.11 thanks. I want to know I'll get to kill things for sure.
- 5 (6.5%)

Total Members Voted: 77


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Author Topic: [34.11] Spearbreakers - It shudders and begins to move  (Read 2253476 times)

Talvieno

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Wow... didn't expect to see all this when I logged in.  :-[ I don't know what to say.... lol, just that I'm blown away, I guess... That post you made, Starweaver, really hit me... I think about that point I realized that McClellan may have actually been serious about the "entire forum" thing, and... well, I'll admit to a few tears. >.> Thank you, guys. I don't have the words to express exactly how this made me feel... I guess "humbled", but in a good way. I still don't understand how you all seem to think of me like this, but... even if I don't see it myself I'll do my best to do you all proud. (that sounds cheesy, but really, I'm just blown away and don't quite know what to say. I didn't expect this. I mean, I expected "oh, don't be so hard on yourself" or maybe "okay, your writing isn't the best, but you're still good" or something... but not this.)

Quote from: Mr Frog
That is a problem, yes :-\ Have you tried negotiating with your mother? And I don't mean asking nicely, I mean seriously, honestly fighting for the right to be allowed out of the house with assistance.
yeah, I have. She says I'm "not responsible enough yet" or "it's not a good time", or some variation on the two. I think it's actually that she just doesn't want to lose her parental substitute. I've been standing in for her since I was 12. I even got/get my sister up to go to school in the morning. I would've reported it to CPS a long time ago, but doing that means I lose my siblings. There's no way my little sisters would be able to find me afterwards, or I them, even if my brothers would know to look for "Talvieno" online.
Quote
others'
The grammar hammerer side of me rejoices; you almost never see anybody write this correctly. (note I'm hypocritical and not using capitalization for a lot of my sentences.)
Quote from: Mr Frog
You won't be able to become independent without someone to help you onto your feet (which is something that needs to happen sooner rather than later)
Yeah, I know. It does need to happen soon. Like you said, it's not doing much for me psychologically. When I took my GED a couple years ago it showed that I wasn't quite as ignorant as I thought - I scored in the top 5%, which I guess says something for how hard I pushed myself to learn. Or that everybody else in the 95% didn't try. (Might be worth mentioning that I was very displeased with myself for not scoring in the top 1%.)

Quote from: Mr Frog
Do you have a driver's license, or is it possible for you to acquire one? Failing that, do you have any other means of independent transportation (even a bicycle might work if civilisation is close enough)? I'm not sure how your mother would react if you disregarded her just randomly went off to the nearest town for a day (even if you be really careful and make sure to bring a map that you know how to read and stay away from people who look like they're trouble),
No, no, and she'd probably respond with a five-hour lecture and cutting off my Internet access again.

Quote from: Mr Frog
I've actually toyed with the idea of arranging this, but it seems questionably-legal and I'm not sure how I'd go about enlisting people (I unfortunately can't drive; else I'd be hauling ass down to Texas or whereever as we speak) or where you'd stay.
Quote from: Mr Frog
We have a forum full of intelligent strategists. I don't think it would be exceptionally hard to find a way to help.
Thanks, guys. I hate asking for help, but I kind of need it at this point. I'm worried I'll never get out otherwise. The law is fine - I'm 24, so I'm legally old enough to leave, or even call the cops and say my mom is forcing me to stay at home (which a good number of people elsewhere have suggested). They're both bad ideas, especially with calling the cops, because... well, first, I won't last long on the streets (I'd probably die of thirst, actually, not knowing where to get water from)... and the CPS would come, and I'd never see my little sisters again. (Also is note that I have no access to any form of ID, be it birth certificate or social security. also no bank account.) As to crossing into Canada, I dunno, it seems like something that might be an issue just because of citizenship. I understand neither of you can help me, though, and that's totally fine. :P I just appreciate the offer.

Quote from: Mr Frog
Where did you get this idea that you're some humongous pain in the ass that people don't actually want around or care about? :V  (Don't answer that.)
A great many people have said as much. :-\ Not gonna go into it farther because you said not to answer (although you posted it, so there must've been a reason for posting it, so I half-answered).

Quote from: Mr Frog
Okay, so I'll say something: your writing is good. It's a bit rambly in parts, but I think you just need to learn how to distinguish between relevant and irrelevant bits. I've said some really brutal things about your writing, but honestly part of the reason why I kept judging you so harshly was because I felt threatened by your writing ability. I was trying to convince myself that your writing was crap probably even more than I was trying to convince you.
Well, I've never tried to say I was better than you. :-\ In fact, your writing has a much more "mature" feel than mine does, in my opinion - it feels like it was aimed at an older audience, which is a quality I've always tried to instill in my work, but I don't feel I've ever really managed.
Quote from: TheFlame
Talvi, I read your 'If Bay12 was a Mountainhome' stories yesterday and they were great. You are a great writer.
Thanks. :P I like the first post I made, and I'm kind of proud of it (keeping that fort alive for six months was the single hardest DF game I've ever played), but I feel the quality dropped off sharply after that.
Quote from: CaptainMcClellan
Hhhhh... I have a friend in a similar situation, mind if I let him in on things Talvi?
Not at all. Go right ahead. I'm not concerned much with confidentiality unless I think it could get me attacked and/or in trouble. :P (at least when it relates to me, I keep other peoples' stuff confidential.
Quote from: Captain McClellan
Also, my ego is no concern. I just have this weird thing where I care about my friends. It's not to make me feel better... I guess it's more like to not feel terrible if you have to attribute it to a selfish reason. ( As I'm sure Mr Frog will and you'll want to even though you shouldn't because it's not healthy, believe me. ) I have a problem with taking on other peoples' problems and empathetically sharing their pain, even, if not especially when it's unhealthy.
I do the same thing, but I never feel bad about helping people out. I feel good about it, actually... part of me just legitimately wants other people to feel better. There's a psychological term for it, but I can't remember it at the moment - basically, it's a desire to help others that arises from being unable to help myself.
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Mmm... I hope you don't mind if I pray for you also. ( Mock all you like if you wish, but it helps. )
I won't mock. I believe in God myself, and consider myself a Christian after a fashion. ("After a fashion" because I believe a lot of what the Bible says, but not quite all of it.)
And yes, I live in Georgia. Northwest Georgia, actually, about one hour from Chattanooga, two hours from Knoxville, and two from Atlanta. roughly.

Quote from: Lolfail
You know, I'd pay good money to see that (provided the director kept the movie close to its roots).
Heh, I would too. >.> Thank you. :P

Quote from: starweaver
I'm kinda curious, what other motives for writing are there? The only one I can think of is trying to entertain, which is the same thing really (Can't get famous with out entertaining). Circles in circles.
uhhhh... good point. :-\ I didn't think of that. Still, hoping to use Spearbreakers to piggyback to the Hall of Legends and beyond wasn't entirely ethical of me. On the plus side, I never fully intended to publish Vanya's story as an actual book... at least not without everybody's permission. (and giving anything it made to Toady.) I'd have to rewrite some of it for it to make sense outside of the context of the thread, but...

Quote from: starweaver
And Talvi, never doubt that you mean something here. You are literally the top of my list(of important people on Bay12), with Mr Frog and Splint tied for second. (Sorry for singling people out, won't happen again.)
and this is the line that made me break down. :P didn't help I was listening to music at the time, probably, but still. it really got to me that anyone could think that highly of me... I still can't comprehend it, to be honest - how anyone could think so much of me (even if you just meant Spearbreakers, McClellan didn't) - but. I'm shaken, humbled, and grateful. thank you.

Quote from: starweaver
And nice work on the Vanya story. Twisty Twist. :P
"twisty twist"? thank you, though. :P I'm going to start working on it again as soon as I finish this post. You can expect another chapter today, sometime after someone else posts. (Splint should be excited in particular.)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 06:43:16 pm by Talvieno »
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Quote from: Mr Frog
Talvieno ... seems to be able to smash out novella-length tales on demand

Reudh

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I don't know what to say that hasn't already been said, Talvi, but you know if you're ever over this way you've got a couch, assuming i have a house. :P

Also, I added you on skype.

Starweaver396

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I forgot to link it yesterday, but this seemed appropriate. All her pictures moved me, but I think this one applies directly. http://destinyblue.deviantart.com/art/Friends-set-you-Free-359112677

And I meant what I said; your writing (and Spearbreakers) are what got me back into DF. I know things will go well for you.

And for grins, I should warn you that it is far easier to live outside a house than inside some houses. Chew on that for a little bit before you draw conclusions.
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...a limbless, headless, bloodless and mutilated dwarf torso that is nevertheless kept alive through benevolent faerie magicks. He is blind, helpless, and in excruciating pain, and yet does not die...
E: I should point out that this is all because of Starweaver giving me inspiration   Aren't you happy with yourself, Starweaver?

Splint

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Huh, I was expecting southern Georgia. Either way if I had the time, space, and resources that's somewhere perfectly feasible to go.

Mr Frog

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I feel as though I should remind everyone to be extremely cautious, and that this isn't a game and should be approached with a appropriate degree of gravity. I think something should be done about this, because it has kept me awake at night many times over the past couple years, but this also has the potential to get very bad for Talvi if the wrong move is taken, and I don't want that on my head. I really only suggested running away or organising a rescue expedition as a last resort.

I should also clarify that I do not fancy myself a strategist in any way, shape or form. I'm good at giving the impression that I know what I'm talking about, but I'm really only marginally-less sheltered and naïve than Talvi himself is and am quite prone to making hasty decisions that I immediately regret. I just want to provide as much assistance as I can, however poorly-informed and incompetent as it turns out to be.

I should call attention to what Talvi said about his mother revoking his Internet access both as punishment and to cut him off from outside influences. This is something she has done repeatedly and has frequently been the reason for him losing contact with us in the past. This is a critical point -- Talvi must avoid angering his mother at all costs or letting her think we're giving him ideas, else his one line to the outside world and by extension us is taken away.
    This leads me to the second, and most important, factor, which is that TalviMom essentially has all the power right now. She may not be able to prevent Talvi from leaving outright, but she's the only one at the moment capable of facilitating his transition to the outside world in a stable, healthy manner. From what I understand, Talvi currently lives in a rural area and lacks a driver's license, so he literally cannot go anywhere meaningful without his mother voluntarily taking him there. As he's indicated that running away is not a practical option, Talvi will either have to circumvent this advantage by calling in someone from outside to 'rescue' him or convince his mother to willingly give him ground.

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I've been standing in for her since I was 12. I even got/get my sister up to go to school in the morning. I would've reported it to CPS a long time ago, but doing that means I lose my siblings. There's no way my little sisters would be able to find me afterwards, or I them, even if my brothers would know to look for "Talvieno" online.

That may be a sacrifice you'll have to end up making. In particular, if she's really as awful and controlling as I'm imagining right now then I really don't like the idea of your siblings having to grow up with her as well.

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She says I'm "not responsible enough yet" or "it's not a good time", or some variation on the two.

Try getting her to set her terms more precisely. When is "a good time", and what exactly do you have to do in order to prove to her that you're "responsible enough"? Additionally, I don't know her well enough to say, but she may have other priorities besides keeping you "safe" that you can try appealing to.
    Try to avoid turning it into a fight if you have to. I'd hate for you to lose your Internet again.

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I won't last long on the streets (I'd probably die of thirst, actually, not knowing where to get water from)... and the CPS would come, and I'd never see my little sisters again. (Also is note that I have no access to any form of ID, be it birth certificate or social security. also no bank account.)

That's a problem... I'm pretty sure there'd be shelters where you could stay, and you might be able to ask where to get necessities, but I don't know if either of those are true. It might be possible to work around the lack of ID, but I'd rather avoid having to do that as it'd make a risky situation even more dicey.
    I think we can pretty much state outright that any option that risks leaving Talvi homeless or without someone to care for him until he's self-sufficient is not worth taking.

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As to crossing into Canada, I dunno, it seems like something that might be an issue just because of citizenship.

Citizenship, no. My father is a British immigrant who *still* hasn't bothered getting citizenship and he gets by without problems. Not having a social insurance number would be a hassle if you're looking for employment but getting one approved may still be possible (it's been a while since I got mine, so I can't remember what's required). There's admittedly probably some kind of law or something against immigrating to Canada without some kind of documentation or some such, which could be troublesome to work around.

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A great many people have said as much.

Not sure what you were doing differently with them, because around here you're nothing less than a pleasure.

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In fact, your writing has a much more "mature" feel than mine does, in my opinion - it feels like it was aimed at an older audience, which is a quality I've always tried to instill in my work, but I don't feel I've ever really managed.

BWAHAHAHAHA

This is more-or-less exactly what I think about my own writing. When I read my own stories, they just seem like childish reams of simplified prose punctuated by loving descriptions of gore and horror. I think it's more of a perspective thing than anything else. Your own writing will always seem bland, because to you there really isn't anything special about it -- that's the way you look at and think about things anyways, so there are no moments of 'wow, I never would have thought of that' and such.

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Still, hoping to use Spearbreakers to piggyback to the Hall of Legends and beyond wasn't entirely ethical of me.

Ethical schmethical. As far as I can tell from my limited viewpoint, you can't get anywhere in life without using somebody as a stepping-stone. It sucks, but that's how it is. At least you'd be giving us something nice in the process.
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CaptainMcClellan

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Can we set up a fund? I don't have much... but I can square away some money for Talvi. A safety net for him to land on after his big leap, if you like. However, I quite agree with Talvien that there's no way you should abandon your siblings. Mr Frog, I know you think that it'd be better to put them into Protection Services, but honestly there's a lot worse places they could end up and Talvi's psyche would never be able to handle not knowing. Surely, you gotta realize this. That, unfortunately, makes things all the more difficult for us working around things.

I myself have no driver's license and am dependent on my very tired father to get things done in many cases. He thinks of me as partially to completely incapable and is loath to allow me to take care of my own funds. I'll admit I haven't shown much sign of fiscal responsibility, but then again I have never had any finances to be responsible for, at least until recently. Upon turning 18, I've come upon a small bit of government money. ( A diagnosis goes a long way into getting free money, but it's barely enough to live on by itself. ) This money, whether my dad will try to cut off access to it or not, is mine. Along with my scholarships I may well have an excess of money, and I'm quite willing to use said money to help Talvien. I'm sure all of us have some pennies we can use.

This, obviously, won't be enough. Especially if, and we do want this even though we don't, we want Talvi to keep a relationship with his mother. ( 'Tis a necessary evil for the sake of the Sisters Talvieno. ) However, if we could somehow get these funds to him in a way that seems legitimate... then perhaps we have a bargaining tool. "Look, I am capable of making enough to live on." Problem is, TalviMom will likely ( read: almost certainly ) be super suspect of said money, attempt to take possession of it, and accuse him of being involved in illicit/immoral activity. All the while, still depriving Talvien of his freedom... And Talvi, it's imperative that you don't just run away. As hard as it may be, you must persevere. Ask your mother about pursuing Tertiary Education. When she says "it cannot be afforded", then combat this with... hmm. Well then, we're writers here. Why not just invent a scholarship tailored to Talvi and post a web-page for such?  Hhghgh. It's so crazy it might work, yes?

So then... If we can convince TalviMom to allow him his college education, then that provides an nice little transition point and his freedom. At least, partially. Meanwhile, he can, if he's able, attempt to get an on-campus job. Said job can be put into private funds. These TalviMom can never find out about. This money can be used to further sustain Talvieno's independence. As per your younger siblings, encourage them to start early with pursuing college funding. It'll help them not to get stuck... assuming that your mother doesn't believe college is evil. Hmm. On what grounds Talvieno, are you being kept at home anyway? Is there any further reason she gives as to why you're not allowed to be independent?

Splint

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This all sounds highly convoluted. Sad fact remains though that while we may be supportive unless one of us has space for I'm guessing... Three people, and means to keep them fed, nevermind transportation, we can't do much to help.

CaptainMcClellan

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This all sounds highly convoluted. Sad fact remains though that while we may be supportive unless one of us has space for I'm guessing... Three people, and means to keep them fed, nevermind transportation, we can't do much to help.

Splint... you're gonna make me cry.

Anyone else have any bright ideas that might be able to do something? Is one of us insanely wealthy? Hhh...

Lolfail0009

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Why not just invent a scholarship tailored to Talvi and post a web-page for such?  Hhghgh. It's so crazy it might work, yes?

That smells illegal to me...

CaptainMcClellan

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Why not just invent a scholarship tailored to Talvi and post a web-page for such?  Hhghgh. It's so crazy it might work, yes?

That smells illegal to me...
Probably... but it's a low level fraud that's never going to get investigated and we're giving our money so it's not like we're stealing anything. But what Splint said pretty much is sadly accurate.

Mr Frog

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We should probably avoid discussing crazy schemes until it becomes clear that Talvi can't negotiate his way out of this. Besides, (@McClellan) I don't think TalviMom's reasoning for not allowing Talvi to leave is so much that he can't make money as it is that he (supposedly) can't keep a schedule or generally perform basic tasks needed to maintain a home and feed himself and such. If he came at her with money that he got from doing some nondescript job she wasn't aware he had taken and had no possible way of getting to without her noticing, it probably wouldn't change anything even if she somehow fell for it.

E:
Quote
So then... If we can convince TalviMom to allow him his college education, then that provides an nice little transition point and his freedom. At least, partially. Meanwhile, he can, if he's able, attempt to get an on-campus job. Said job can be put into private funds. These TalviMom can never find out about. This money can be used to further sustain Talvieno's independence. As per your younger siblings, encourage them to start early with pursuing college funding. It'll help them not to get stuck... assuming that your mother doesn't believe college is evil. Hmm. On what grounds Talvieno, are you being kept at home anyway? Is there any further reason she gives as to why you're not allowed to be independent?

This sounds valid enough, I guess, though my intuition is telling me there are holes in the plan somewhere.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 10:16:20 pm by Mr Frog »
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Lolfail0009

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Let's hope your intuition is better than mine screaming "Do this before September 13."

CaptainMcClellan

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Mr Frog, you're probably right. My intuition tells me that it has nothing to do with Talvien, but rather it's something in TalviMom's mind that is warped. The college should be an agreeable choice by any standard. It provides a supposedly safe, structured environment with a potential payout. Does Talvien have any sort of disability or condition that can be diagnosed? If so, he can be issued certain accomodations by the school and possibly draw SSI'

Talvieno

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Holy shit, guys, eight posts in the time it took me to proofread this. o.o   I'm going to have to respond to it all tomorrow - really sorry, but I'm dead tired and have to get my sister up for school tomorrow. Today's been a busy day today - lots of moving furniture. (long story.) (I haven't read the last eight posts yet. wow, I haven't been ninja'd eight times in forever. o.o) I'm running on fumes right now and there may be typos or glaring errors in here somewhere...

But I got the chapter done! Couldn't stand to break my promise. :P

Vanya's Journals, chapter 64: A Mysterious Stranger

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 10:50:08 pm by Talvieno »
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Quote from: Mr Frog
Talvieno ... seems to be able to smash out novella-length tales on demand

Splint

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This all sounds highly convoluted. Sad fact remains though that while we may be supportive unless one of us has space for I'm guessing... Three people, and means to keep them fed, nevermind transportation, we can't do much to help.

Splint... you're gonna make me cry.

Sorry, just calling it as I see it. For example, I may be closest and while I'd have the space for Talvieno himself and a means to go and get him, I'd have nowhere for his sisters,  along with explaining how I know him and why he's suddenly asking to hole up in our spare room that is barely used, though in that regard my own family may be more annoyed than rejecting.
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