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Wait for the next release. I want usable mugs damn it!

55 (71.4%)

We can use the current one. I like the big trees and slightly smarter dorfs.

17 (22.1%)

I'll take .34.11 thanks. I want to know I'll get to kill things for sure.

5 (6.5%)

Total Members Voted: 77

[Splint]

I'll probably regret this, but I'll take Soldier A, also I didn't reply for the same reason Asea didn't, I just didn't see anything that I felt the need to comment on.

Can I grab a metalworker? I wouldn't mind a metalworker... I mean, if that's ok with you '^^

E: And yeah, I didn't really reply to the PM because I didn't think my input was... you know... necessary. You guys had it all figured out.

Well the whole point was to see if there was anything you guys felt should be removed or whatever. And got you on the list. That leaves one spot open.

[Leonkr9]

This Sounds Fun Dorf me as a Carpenter/Lumberjack if that's alright (or miner if you prefer)

[Splint]

This Sounds Fun Dorf me as a Carpenter/Lumberjack if that's alright (or miner if you prefer)

On a waiting list or would you like the last embark slot?

[Leonkr9]

Eh embark and waiting list if that's okay

[Splint]

Eh embark and waiting list if that's okay

I'll just assume that means you want the last slot.

VOLUNTEERS - Complete!
1. Splint "The Leader" (2 Mason/Engraver/Building Designer/Leader, 1 Persuader/Intimidator)
2. Aseaheru "Negligent dwarficide waiting to happen (AKA group doctor)" (3 Diagnoser 2 suture/wound dress, 1 bone doctor/surgery)
3. Propman "Head Chef" (4 cook, 2 comedian, 1 flatterer/wood crafter/butcher/lye maker) 
4. Lolfail "The Smith" (2 Weapon/Armorsmith/Metalcraft, 1 conversationalist, 2 liar, 1 wood burner)
5. Leonkr "The Lumberdwarf" (3 woodcutter, 2 carpenter/woodcraft, 1 axe/persuader/comedian)
6. Zacen "The Swordsdwarf" (3 Discipline, 2 Armor, 2 Dodge, 2 Shield, 1 Sword, 1 Fish Cleaner)
7. Deus Asmoth "The Speardwarf" (3 Discipline, 2 Armor, 2 Dodge, 2 Shield, 1 Spear, 1 Soaper)

That covers the embark party. Since Talvieno and Mr Frog were the only ones putting in extra input, I'll run a modified OP by them, then we'll await the next release and a bugfix for it (since there will inevitably the need of one.)

[Mr Frog]

Out of curiosity, is it set in stone that we're doing a reboot? The poll seems to have evened up...

(fwiw, I still think a reboot would be a better option and would be more accessible to newbies and less of a hassle to set up, but)

[Splint]

It is set in stone as far as I'm concerned. The amount of effort to shore everything up and modding needed to do things right is more than I'm willing to put in (in regards to modding; hell I'm even trying to dissuade Talvieno from trying to finish the PDF just because of the clusterfuck the thread has become I'm fairly certain I even forgot to post things somewhere for the last turn.)

[Splint]

Light Light Armor Testing (50v50 engagement)

For the purposes of this test, all dwarves are using a fabric uniform full chain (coif, paints, boots, gloves, hauberk) with leather body armor and a rigid iron helmet. Test groups are using either short arming swords or boar spears and wood kite shields.

Shed Dastot (Order of the Sword) (50)
Skilled (4) Across the board (Armor/dodge/shield/sword/observation)
[VS]
Spawn Warband (50)
3 + 7 (3 Wrestler/dodge, 7 Bite/strike)

OUTCOME
21 Dwarves survive
The dwarves went through two extremes: Largely unhurt, or deader than dead. Some scattered broken bones in different groups were around and for some other dwarves...

Yeah.
The dwarves who survived largely unhurt were honestly just really lucky. Had Morale been active, they'd have been slaughtered wholesale. Hell I think only so many survived because they killed the spawn while they were busy chewing on the other guys in their units, most of which have been reduced to under half their number.
Light armor: Fucking worthless against the spawn without a lot of shield and dodge training.

12 Spawn survive, primarily in various states of dismemberment, but here's the thing: This shit would have killed literally anything else. And here's an especially amusing one.

That spawn was among the survivors and had lost both arms and legs and had its guts trailing behind it. The spawn are still stupidly durable, and even with the debuffs I added in the last tests, they can destroy soldiers with "skirmish" type armor, and this assumes an even playing field and a bare minimum of training and doesn't factor in morale.

With morale in effect, the dwarven squads would have likely collapsed and tried to flee after the first few corpses piled up. I was going to do a test with speardwarves as well, but decided against it in the end since the results probably would have been heavily skewed by the difference in weaponry. Swords are typically the "average" weapon people associate with fantasy and in general for middle ages weaponry, and hence I used that.

[Mr Frog]

Hmm. Guess I overdid it with them then if they're still that tough after the armour buff and your nerf.

I still don't really agree with exactly how you nerfed them -- I don't think stunning or nausea make sense for creatures without functioning brains or digestive systems -- but I'll definitely make the 'public' version a bit weaker. I just got through a test with vanilla armour and unnerfed Spawn and the results were roughly the same as yours.

[Splint]

Honestly I prefer to look at them more as semi-living things they were in Syrupleaf - while they possessed a host of vulnerabilities most creatures had, they didn't bleed, feel pain, or fear, and it took champions to hold the line against them.

Another aspect is I'm looking at this from a gameplay perspective: yeah, lots of casualties is fun the first time or two it happens, but in thier pre-nerf state against unlayered (that is to say one uniform, and one suit of armor for vanilla,) they were walking tantrums waiting to happen which gets old pretty fast. So I struck a balance.

While I gave back two of the vulnerabilities of Syrupleaf era Spawn, I didn't tone down thier stats or attacks in any way shape or form. Soldiers who're tanking it (be it in layers upon layers - which I think is stupid from a resource standpoint - or via beefed up armor,) up now actually have half a chance against them rather than being dwarf nibblets in an iron can. If I recall right, with those two status effects, dwarven casualties dropped noticeably while there were still moderate losses (deaths and combat invalids) and some possible spawnitis victims.

I'm going to reread everything though to get a better idea of them. It's been a while anyway.

[Mr Frog]

Well, as much as I hate to admit when I'm wrong, if you can show me evidence of the Spawn getting stunned or nauseous in Syrupleaf I will begrudgingly accept that such should be re-implemented in the current version. I swear to Christ they didn't, but we all know I have the reading comprehension of a squirrel so :V

E: Er, not that I'm saying that they shouldn't be put in the SBII version anyways if that's what Splint wants. my petty grumbling aside. It's your show, bro.

[Splint]

Well, as much as I hate to admit when I'm wrong, if you can show me evidence of the Spawn getting stunned or nauseous in Syrupleaf I will begrudgingly accept that such should be re-implemented in the current version. I swear to Christ they didn't, but we all know I have the reading comprehension of a squirrel so :V

E: Er, not that I'm saying that they shouldn't be put in the SBII version anyways if that's what Splint wants. my petty grumbling aside. It's your show, bro.

http://lparchive.org/Dwarf-Fortress-Syrupleaf/Update%2007/

The demons cannot bleed, nor feel pain, nor do they know fear, though it is said that a blow to their digestive organs can paralyze them momentarily as they vomit forth their foul meals.

First confirmation, they are indeed vulnerable to nausea, and implied to be vulnerable to stunning. I'll wait until I see more to confirm the stunning and cement the nausea.

[Propman]

Could we by any chance make the spawn vomit acid, or something equally toxic to life?

[Mr Frog]

The demons cannot bleed, nor feel pain, nor do they know fear, though it is said that a blow to their digestive organs can paralyze them momentarily as they vomit forth their foul meals.

Bravo, Splint! Gonna go pop that into the raws I have on my comp then

@Prop:

I dunno. I think the material a creature uses for vomit is hardcoded but I very vaguely recall seeing something to the contrary? Gonna go poke around.


E: Also, something that just now occurred to me: should we have a limit on the number of turns that can be reserved in advance? I think we literally had to clear out the waiting list and start over because we had like 12 people who had made reservations months before and subsequently lost interest or ceased forum activity entirely.

[Splint]

It'd probably be a smart thing to do, maybe try to get people in bunches and at least attempt to move swiftly as it were.