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[Funk]

it is the long term that need the real looking at,after all you can get by with out food for week, water for days and air the best part of an hour, but you cn live with out them.

[Cthulhu]

I am now on the TryPolyphasic map, as an Uberman polyphasic sleeper.

I'm not, of course, but I'm on the map as one.

[Aklyon]

Also, there is actually quite a bit of scientific data on sleep patterns.  The overwhelming consensus is that when humans are exposed to natural light and are allowed to sleep whenever they want, they'll fall into a biphastic schedule.

Is that why I my friend always feels like taking a nap in the afternoon?

[Sir Finkus]

Also, there is actually quite a bit of scientific data on sleep patterns.  The overwhelming consensus is that when humans are exposed to natural light and are allowed to sleep whenever they want, they'll fall into a biphastic schedule.

Is that why I my friend always feels like taking a nap in the afternoon?

Yeah, although the normal pattern is going to bed when it gets dark and sleeping for a while, then having a short period of wakefulness before going to sleep again.

More information here

[Max White]

it is the long term that need the real looking at,after all you can get by with out food for week, water for days and air the best part of an hour, but you cn live with out them.

I'm not a doctor, but I'm confident that you can suffer brain damage after ten minutes without air.

[Loud Whispers]

it is the long term that need the real looking at,after all you can get by with out food for week, water for days and air the best part of an hour, but you cn live with out them.

I'm not a doctor, but I'm confident that you can suffer brain damage after ten minutes without air.

5-6 minutes brain damage, 10 minutes it'd be permanent. Though it'd vary from person to person, i.e. divers/SPEHSSMEN would obviously fare much much better than your average bob

[DrPoo]

I appreciate my dreaming and i try to sleep to the point where my REM is atleast 60 minutes, I.E dreams lasting 60 real minutes(through technicues you can make your dreams feel like days)

[MadocComadrin]

I'm a little suspicious about "maximizing REM sleep" for a few reasons.

1. Periods of REM sleep increase in time and frequency the longer your contiguous sleeping periods are.
2. You need the other phases of sleep to get the full benefits of sleep. There's a reason we cycle in and out of REM sleep.

Slow-wave/non-REM sleep does play a role in memory reinforcement--in fact, it reinforces memory a lot better than REM sleep.*

*By memory, I mean declarative memory--what we experience, the facts we know, and pretty much all conscious memory. REM sleep tends to focus on procedural memory, which is unconscious--the memory of how to do things, such as riding a bike.

So, maximizing REM sleep/minimizing SWS will hinder your ability to remember events and such, as well as transfer events from episodic memory to semantic memory (problems with doing this can lead to depression, Acute Stress Disorder, PTSD (assuming you've had emotional events in the past, and a host of other issues).

Likewise, being awake during light periods is necessary for vitamin D levels.

[Leafsnail]

Wait, so your blog is telling us that to deal with sleep deprivation you need to keep yourself awake as much as possible...?

[Leatra]

I know a guy who slept in the morning and stayed awake in the night for sometime.

Are those actually safe long-term?

No one's tried it yet

There are lots of blogs about it.

I think I might try Everyman at some point. 4.5 hours of core sleep and 2 naps (20 mins). It will be interesting to experiment.

The book I mentioned: http://www.puredoxyk.com/index.php/the-ubersleep-book/ I guess it contains actual research but I didn't read it yet.

Wait, so your blog is telling us that to deal with sleep deprivation you need to keep yourself awake as much as possible...?

I was talking about ways to lessen the effects of sleep deprivation until naps. You know, feeling less sleepy and enduring it. I thought I didn't need to make that clear.

I'm rooting for ya Leatra.  Nothing wrong with a bit of experimentation.  And it if turns out to work well for you then its all good.

Thanks! I don't want to prove it I just want to know if I can or if I can't. Reactions coming from people are discouraging (I'm not talking about this forum only) but that just makes me more determined.

Also, it seems my problem was a simple disorder called 'Delayed sleep phase disorder'

[Leafsnail]

I was talking about ways to lessen the effects of sleep deprivation until naps. You know, feeling less sleepy and enduring it. I thought I didn't need to make that clear.

Those tips aren't "lessening the effects of sleep deprivation".  They're ways to keep yourself awake and deprive yourself of sleep further.  The best way to lessen the effects of sleep deprivation is to go to sleep so you're no longer sleep deprived (incidentally, aren't the polyphasic sleeping patterns meant to leave you not sleep deprived?).

[Leatra]

I was talking about ways to lessen the effects of sleep deprivation until naps. You know, feeling less sleepy and enduring it. I thought I didn't need to make that clear.

Those tips aren't "lessening the effects of sleep deprivation".  They're ways to keep yourself awake and deprive yourself of sleep further.  The best way to lessen the effects of sleep deprivation is to go to sleep so you're no longer sleep deprived (incidentally, aren't the polyphasic sleeping patterns meant to leave you not sleep deprived?).

No, polyphasic sleeping patterns meant to leave you not sleep deprived after the adaptation phase. Only way to get rid of sleep deprivation is sleeping. These tips will make you feel like you lessened the effects of sleep deprivation. You will be so sleep deprived zombies will look smarter than you. I couldn't open my eyelids at one point. I had to use my hands until I managed to move them. These tips are for enduring sleep deprivation and not falling asleep. You won't need them after the adaptation phase. Hell, you won't even need alarm clocks.

[Muz]

I dunno, this reminds me of vegan diets. I like that there are actually a few facts to support this, but with most medical things, just because you isolate one factor (the power of naps), it doesn't mean you've got it right. It could just be that naps are powerful when combined with good sleep.

I like full 8 hour sleep. Nothing makes me feel healthier or work better. It works for teenagers and babies, who are growing and learning a lot. I know in college, having enough sleep is the difference between good grades and failing a subject.

I say sleep is almost as important as eating. You need food for physical strength, sleep for mental strength. If people were like cars, sleep is the maintenance; you don't see what's wrong until you don't do it.

I'm skeptical about the whole thing about great people doing polyphasic sleep. Even if everyone on that list does polyphasic sleep, you can find plenty of others who don't do it. It makes sense with Napoleon though. Military commanders will often be under a lot of stress and not be able to get deep sleep very well. I'm not surprised if programmers or anyone who spends their nights do the same thing. It's likely more a result of amnesia than anything.

I know lots of very fricking smart people, and they have a solid 10 PM-6 AM routine. Then again, I know very smart people who don't sleep much, though it doesn't seem to help them.


Personally, I'm with the belief that humans have an internal control system that works 90% of the time. The only way you can screw up your health is by doing things your body doesn't like. Your body sends signals when you're doing the wrong thing.

Eating whatever you want to eat doesn't make you obese; forcing yourself to eat cheap food you don't really like, or fast food because you don't feel like cooking is what causes obesity. Tasty food in itself doesn't cause heart attacks, but binging on bacon and steak simply because bacon and steak is awesome (and cheap) is what does it.

Exercise is an exception, since you have to force yourself into that routine and then it starts feeling good. Exercise is actually one of the rare medical things that has been perfectly proven, since you have athletes that base their lives around it. Eating/sleeping habits less so.

If your body is resisting your sleep patterns, I think it's just not right. I'm of the belief that if you feel sleepy, go ahead and sleep. If you're hungry, eat. I think sleep deprivation is sort of a debt, much like hunger deprivation.. you can go for days eating only a slice of bread every 6 hours, but after a few days/weeks, you'll eat a whole bunch of stuff to make up for it. It's similar here; you get yourself sleep deprived and eventually you oversleep to make up for it.

I'm open to the idea, but unless I see it working for someone in a high mental stress career, I'm still sticking with biphasic sleep as the best type of sleep. And so far, a lot of high tech companies support siestas, so I know it helps productivity in some way.

[Leatra]

Good points. Sleeping is really like eating and polyphasic sleep sounds like a vegan diet. This polyphasic sleep became a thing because some people had to do it (for example, military commanders like you mentioned) and most people fail because they don't need this. Pretty much none of us do. I learned English when I was like 9. I didn't have anybody to teach me. Schools teach nothing about English. I learned it by myself. How did I do it? Because I had to. That's the nature of humans. Willpower is the most powerful of all powers.

I'm not saying I'm very intelligent, very strong willed, or a super-soldier. Polyphasic sleep doesn't have to do anything with intelligence. I don't have a high chance of succeeding. My circadian rythm is basically, fucked. Sometimes I don't see dreams for months, I see dreams only when I sleep at school, or if I fall asleep unconsciously and this is not good news. The most important reason why I'm doing this, is because I'm failing miserably at school. I have microsleeps during exams, fall asleep while studying, sleep too much if there is no school (minimum 12 hours) and I'm going to set it right one way or another. The reason why I'm not sleeping much is probably because of sleep deprivation. It's called 'sleep debt' and still, there is no proof about this too. We don't have much knowledge about sleeping itself. The '8 hours of sleep is good for you' myth is busted. What else there is we don't know about this subject?

People don't believe this or skeptical about this because there is a lack of scientific proof. The only thing I would call close to a research is a book written by an internet personality known as PureDoxy who has written tons of stuff about this subject. Then we have a crapload of blogs. Most of them give up because of social life (that's me) or difficulty of adapting. All polyphasic sleepers experiment. You can't just build a theory about polyphasic sleeping and go from there. Bloggers experiment and write their experiences. We are not saying "this is true" or "this is wrong" we are just telling what is working for us. Polyphasic sleepers force rheir body to adapt to 'wrong things' and it becomes the 'right thing' for their body. Believe it or not, fully adapted polyphasic sleepers have difficult if they try to become monophasic again. When somebody just looks at the whole thing and says "meh, you are doing it for the lulz" its a little... heartbreaking. But that's the life.

If I tell you that the world is flat, you wouldn't believe me right? What if it's a government conspiracy? How do you define proof? I wasn't kidding when I said "there are people who believe the world is flat" and here is the link if you don't believe me. For me, all these guys are crazy and to you, all polyphasic sleepers are crazy and these guys are crazier. I hope you get my point.

Anyway, I'm just a 18 years old teenager. I'm hoping to research this subject in a more official way, if I can become a psychologist one day.

[Leafsnail]

My circadian rythm is basically, fucked. Sometimes I don't see dreams for months, I see dreams only when I sleep at school, or if I fall asleep unconsciously and this is not good news. The most important reason why I'm doing this, is because I'm failing miserably at school. I have microsleeps during exams, fall asleep while studying, sleep too much if there is no school (minimum 12 hours) and I'm going to set it right one way or another. The reason why I'm not sleeping much is probably because of sleep deprivation. It's called 'sleep debt' and still, there is no proof about this too.

This sounds like something to talk to a medical professional about rather than just taking what random people say online as faith.  As in, it sounds like you have some kind of narcolepsy.  There are ways to treat that and help reduce the symptoms, but forcing yourself to stay awake as if somehow passing a test of willpower will magically make it better isn't one of them.

I mean, even if the idea of polyphasic sleeping is 100% true, it's only meant to work for people who are otherwise able to sleep normally.  Noone's saying it could help treat someone who has narcolepsy as far as I'm aware.

If I tell you that the world is flat, you wouldn't believe me right? What if it's a government conspiracy? How do you define proof? I wasn't kidding when I said "there are people who believe the world is flat" and here is the link if you don't believe me. For me, all these guys are crazy and to you, all polyphasic sleepers are crazy and these guys are crazier. I hope you get my point.

No?  This seems to strike down your argument if anything.  The fact that the polyphasic sleep people have websites doesn't prove it works any more than the flat earth society having websites proves the earth is flat.  Because the earth clearly isn't flat and you can quickly perform experiments on your own without having to rely on anyone else to prove that.