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[Aqizzar]

Or, y'know, he got lucky too.  Like being born to a family of millionaires including his dad the governor of Michigan, and came into adulthood with a boatload of rich friends to spur him on his way.  Call it winning the genetic lottery.

Lets just include that and my apparent lack of knowledge about basic household finances in the topic because you would rather try to attack me than actually debate me.

Since the whole point of this "debate" is about how economic policy relates to the vast majority of American citizens, repeatedly proving, and indeed admitting, that have you no real idea how basic household finances work or anything else that you're talking about pretty much invalidates any possible "debate" to be had with you.

[NinjaBoot]

Or, y'know, he got lucky too.  Like being born to a family of millionaires including his dad the governor of Michigan, and came into adulthood with a boatload of rich friends to spur him on his way.  Call it winning the genetic lottery.

Or that!

Good catch!

Lets just include that and my apparent lack of knowledge about basic household finances in the topic because you would rather try to attack me than actually debate me.

Since the whole point of this "debate" is about how economic policy relates to the vast majority of American citizens, repeatedly proving, and indeed admitting, that have you no real idea how basic household finances work or anything else that you're talking about pretty much invalidates any possible "debate" to be had with you.

How so?

[jester]

How is an article biased that points out those who became successful without resorting to higher education?  It is merely backing up my argument from the stance that, hey, there are some people who don't have to do what everybody else does to get ahead in life. 

TBH I didnt even read that article, after the first 6 pages or so of this thread I stopped reading the stuff that you have posted, though I had a good lol at the Texas uni one that disproved part of the point you were apparently trying to make, I was talking about the stuff from those pages, though I doubt that things have changed.  Look, the problem you have here is that any yoyo can have professional looking articles posted on the net, that doesnt mean that they are in any way factual or not just blatant propaganda for a certain point of view, intelligent journalism should at least try and show to be impartial, 1/2 page articles that use a single study/paper to obviously promote a certain point of view really arent useful.

Well you apparently have no idea about basic household finances and many other basic things that everyday people come up against everyday, your grammar often lacks and you seem to think that totally biased articles from the internet prove your points, dont get me wrong, I think you are probably a fairly smart kid, but many of the opinions you voice as well as the way you voice them, make me think you are a kid.

The whole point is to highlight that there are people who are just better at making money.

Reality does not work this way.  99% of the rich people out there didnt 'earn' their wealth by being smarter or better than the next guy


edit:  repeatedly use of the words 'how so?' really doesnt help, look at what has been said

[NinjaBoot]

How is an article biased that points out those who became successful without resorting to higher education?  It is merely backing up my argument from the stance that, hey, there are some people who don't have to do what everybody else does to get ahead in life. 

TBH I didnt even read that article, after the first 6 pages or so of this thread I stopped reading the stuff that you have posted, though I had a good lol at the Texas uni one that disproved part of the point you were apparently trying to make, I was talking about the stuff from those pages, though I doubt that things have changed.  Look, the problem you have here is that any yoyo can have professional looking articles posted on the net, that doesnt mean that they are in any way factual or not just blatant propaganda for a certain point of view, intelligent journalism should at least try and show to be impartial, 1/2 page articles that use a single study/paper to obviously promote a certain point of view really arent useful.

Then I guess you should re-read what I have actually written because uh..

"The whole point of the exercise was to point out that the exact same thing can be said about scientists being pressured by their corporate interests or government officials to produce a biased report." Reply #70 from me

I even pointed out in one of my original posts about finding a neutral 3rd party source that we can agree on, but nobody wanted to do that, just rather focus on which source is bought and paid for. 

Well you apparently have no idea about basic household finances and many other basic things that everyday people come up against everyday, your grammar often lacks and you seem to think that totally biased articles from the internet prove your points, dont get me wrong, I think you are probably a fairly smart kid, but many of the opinions you voice as well as the way you voice them, make me think you are a kid.

The whole point is to highlight that there are people who are just better at making money.

Reality does not work this way.  99% of the rich people out there didnt 'earn' their wealth by being smarter or better than the next guy


edit:  repeatedly use of the words 'how so?' really doesnt help, look at what has been said

[/quote]

You obviously do not watch sports then. 

[jester]

Majority of pro sports players dont make huge amounts of cash for the effort they put in and have stoopidly short careers, the few superstars are in the 1% 

[NinjaBoot]

Majority of pro sports players dont make huge amounts of cash for the effort they put in and have stoopidly short careers, the few superstars are in the 1%

It depends on the sport, really. 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_sports

"In 1970, the average salary in Major League Baseball in the U.S. and Canada was $20,000. In 2005, the average salary shot up to $3,154,000."

"On average, basketball players in the NBA make over 5 million dollars each year.[23]"

"n 1990, the average NHL salary was $271,000, and now the average has risen to $2.6 million in the 2010-11 season."

Even if the average sports athlete doesn't make a superstars contract, if an athlete signs a contract outside his rookie contract, he would be set for life. 

Heck, in sports like the NBA and NFL their college equivalents offer fully paid scholarships to student-athletes.  Even if they don't make the big-leagues, they'll still be able to find a job with zero debt right out of school. 

[scriver]

That's the average salary. But where's the median?

[NinjaBoot]

That's the average salary. But where's the median?

Indeed, I certainly wouldn't mind my average salary being a few million a year! :O

Alright, lets talk about movie stars! 

What about musicians and musical groups?  Directors and film makers?  Professional writers and authors?  Comic book artists, manga artists, professional painters, fashion designers and even freaking youtube celebrities?

I don't know how else to give more evidence to the notion that some people are just better at making money than others.  Not everybody is going to be successful, some more than others, and so on. 

How does this all relate to an economic tax policy such as the progressive tax system? 

Whats wrong with letting people enjoy the wealth and success they have created for themselves? 

The whole argument behind "the rich" paying their fair share is a cheap cop-out and a lazy ideal because it targets an easily identifiable group of people that is easy to exploit because, hey, "they're rich enough, taking a few hundred thousand/million from them each year doesn't hurt them, they can easily get by with less!"  It doesn't involve violence, doesn't overtly hurt them in any way, and it is easy to point out statistics that show how many people live in poverty and are destitute as opposed to the few who live in luxury.  It is easy to get a person to agree with your position because it is something that is morally easy to support in theory.

[Blargityblarg]

The whole argument behind "the rich" paying their fair share is a cheap cop-out and a lazy ideal because it targets an easily identifiable group of people that is easy to exploit because, hey, "they're rich enough, taking a few hundred thousand/million from them each year doesn't hurt them, they can easily get by with less!"  It doesn't involve violence, doesn't overtly hurt them in any way, and it is easy to point out statistics that show how many people live in poverty and are destitute as opposed to the few who live in luxury.  It is easy to get a person to agree with your position because it is something that is morally easy to support in theory.

'I refuse to support the best course of action because it's too obvious'

[scriver]

That's the average salary. But where's the median?

Indeed, I certainly wouldn't mind my average salary being a few million a year! :O

You don't have an "average" salary. You have an individual salary. You do know the difference between the average mean and the median, and why it's important here, don't you?

Whats wrong with letting people enjoy the wealth and success they have created for themselves? 

What's wrong with enabling others to try and make something for themselves as well?

[Zangi]

So what I'm getting out of NinjaBoot's stance: Some people are just better or just plain luckier then others when it comes to making money, they should pay less in taxes because "Trickle Down" Ideology and "They Deserve It".

Did I get it right?  I think the basic idea is, most people here don't agree with that sort of thinking... at least on your level.

[mainiac]

Yes rich people can invest in bussiness.  But so can everyone else.  Literally everyone.

So why doesn't everybody start investing in companies and earning a return?

They DO.  It's called the financial sector.  Ever had a savings account?  I kinda doubt it.  You think the bank just wants that money to go Scrooge McDucking in?

Someone who doesn't even know the vagest notion of what capitalism is should know when to shut his trap.

[NinjaBoot]

So what I'm getting out of NinjaBoot's stance: Some people are just better or just plain luckier then others when it comes to making money, they should pay less in taxes because "Trickle Down" Ideology and "They Deserve It".

Did I get it right?  I think the basic idea is, most people here don't agree with that sort of thinking... at least on your level.

No, why should they have to pay an increasing amount of tax? 

They already pay the highest rate of tax in the Nation, this is why the stats I showed from wikipedia showing the income states reflect this. 

This, unfortunately, doesn't involve talking about why the need is in the first place to take so much tax.  Oh, something about government spending too much money?

[NinjaBoot]

Yes rich people can invest in bussiness.  But so can everyone else.  Literally everyone.

So why doesn't everybody start investing in companies and earning a return?

They DO.  It's called the financial sector.  Ever had a savings account?  I kinda doubt it.  You think the bank just wants that money to go Scrooge McDucking in?

Someone who doesn't even know the vagest notion of what capitalism is should know when to shut his trap.

*facepalm*

I know I make you angry for the simple fact of arguing an opposing viewpoint, but really.. stick to my arguments and do your best to leave out the ad hominems. 

If you were indeed right, and your position was correct in its assumptions, logic and overall theory, then why is there any need for you to keep trying to belittle me and dismiss me arguments because of that? 

[NinjaBoot]

150th post celebration! 

*pops a bottle of dom perignon and liquored up mainiac so they can agree on something.. hopefully!*