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Author Topic: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!  (Read 27841 times)

NinjaBoot

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2012, 08:17:46 am »

Whoever UT Austin is, he or she must obviously be bought and paid for by industry spokepeople! 

Because you insist on a childlike naivete, let me break this down for you:

1) There are many places in the united states with contaminated groundwater.
2) Some of these places are not contaminated from fraking
3) Some scientists make reports such places.  These scientists may be neutral or may even be ideological but the results are the same.
4) Some paid advocates take those reports and loudly trumpet those claims beyond the context of the reports themselves.  In this case 'Charles “Chip” Groat', a paid industry spokesperson.  He receives a paycheck to do exactly this.
5) A "news story" gets written consisting of nothing but quotes from this paid industry advocate
6) Credulous individuals, commonly refereed to as "Dupes" take this as a neutral scientific opinion rather then a paid spokesperson doing his job.

This process should be familiar to any adult or a halfway world wise minor.  Yet you have insisted on ignoring it when it is called to your attention.  Instead you have repeatedly mocked me, characterizing me as believing in shadowy conspiracies despite me repeatedly explaining my views.  These views are entirely free of conspiracies and instead depend on publicly known people doing their publicly known jobs exactly the way their job description lays out.

You are being deliberately obtuse to the point of insult.  You have no interest in even acknowledging, let alone engaging my views.  You are wearing blinders to the point of insisting that I am saying the exact opposite of what I am saying even after I clarified for you.

Why do you assume I am mocking you?  Oh crap, I suppose by taking a sarcastic tone I am automatically attacking you.  I mean, really, you immediately call me out for mocking you, while at the same time show no restraint in your attempt to mock me.  At least try and keep up the game of verbal sparring before resorting to crying about it. 

I am asserting your belief that the sources I provide are somehow "bought and paid for" while your sources are 100% completely legit.  The arguments from you to back this up amount to simply "because I say so", "I know how the world works and you obviously don't."  Because, if you break it down, it doesn't matter what issue you pick, statistics, facts and data are going to be skewed by politicians and influential people to get the government to do what they want.  Why do you think there is all this controversy over Global Warming? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

"Many climate scientists state that they are put under enormous pressure to distort or hide any scientific results which suggest that human activity is to blame for global warming."

And no, this is not de-railing anything because the whole overarching issue with Global Warming is at the crux of what is driving these issues in the first place. 

"In the U.S. global warming is often a partisan political issue. Republicans tend to oppose action against a threat that they regard as unproven, while Democrats tend to support actions that they believe will reduce global warming and its effects through the control of greenhouse gas emissions."

Fracking and drilling in general leads to "global warming".  The current administration, which has been Democrat for the past 3 years, is in power, and taking the above statement.. "Many climate scientists state that they are put under enormous pressure to distort or hide any scientific results which suggest that human activity is to blame for global warming." Their current stance through the EPA is essentially "No drilling."  So, again, how are your sources 100% untainted and mine mysteriously are? 

I won't be responding for around 8 hours, sleep and all, so don't take my non-response as a negative gesture towards you.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 08:28:24 am by NinjaBoot »
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mainiac

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2012, 08:29:13 am »

Global warming denial?  You trollin' bro?
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scriver

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2012, 09:29:17 am »

There doesn't have to be a "perfect" balance between people and the environment, it just has to be better than it is now.

And really, NinjaBoot, the statements you make comes off less as promoting "fiscal sanity" (which in itself is a completely meaningless buzzword) and more as promoting mercantilism, which in itself is basically the opposite of healthy capitalism and very, very far from a working economic system. Amusingly enough, my Firefox spellchecker doesn't even acknowledge that "mercantilism" exists and suggests changing it into "anti-Americanism".
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Leafsnail

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2012, 11:24:35 am »

"Many climate scientists state that they are put under enormous pressure to distort or hide any scientific results which suggest that human activity is to blame for global warming."
Have you actually read this quote?  Read it again.  Then explain how it backs up your point.
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chaoticag

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2012, 11:42:22 am »

So environmentalists are bought and paid for.  But industry spokespeople they're just doing it for the public interest.   ::)

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2012/02/16/ut-austin-study-says-fracking-hasnt.html

Whoever UT Austin is, he or she must obviously be bought and paid for by industry spokepeople! 

I'll help you with this one:  They were obviously pressured by the higher ups in the University to produce this slanted piece of garbage to pander to the big-oil crowd and also ensure they get their donation money!?

But hey, for the sake of argument lets leave out the issues regarding the environmental impact of fracking for gas, since we cannot agree upon a neutral 3rd party source that we both accept as unbiased.  That basically leaves us with: why not?  Its going to provide cheaper fuel for our residents while contributing money to the government coffers.  BONUS!
http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2012/02/15/shell-oil-invests-39m-in-ut.html
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Chaoswizkid

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy America Sucks Thread!
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2012, 11:55:03 am »

Drilling massive holes in the ground and releasing thousands of tons of hydrocarbons does have a negative effect on the environment. Look at any oilfield;

Okay. *Looks at the numerous oil derricks across upper-middle United States*

they're generally pretty lifeless.

*Looks at the massive surrounding cultivated land, producing healthy foodstuffs as far as the eye can see*
Hmm...  no? Or do they not count?

I'm not trying to be too trolly here, I just think you need to fix your argument a little.
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Sirus

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2012, 01:20:19 pm »

Hmm, perhaps you're right. When I think "oil well", I think of the ones in Texas and similar areas, which (in media, at least) are in vast deserts with very little greenery. I concede the point, at least for now.
I don't think anyone can deny the effects of spills, however. Especially at sea.
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alway

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2012, 01:55:26 pm »

'Foreign oil' is a bit of a canard. http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-12-16/us-oil-boom/52053236/1
Read the link, it's interesting. In summary:
A. We export about the same level of oil as we import (the article is about how we exported more than we imported last year).
B. Gas prices are linked to the global trade value, so despite the net exporting, gas prices remain high.

As for the results of fracking, from a neutral point of view: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4275
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NinjaBoot

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2012, 05:54:33 pm »

"Many climate scientists state that they are put under enormous pressure to distort or hide any scientific results which suggest that human activity is to blame for global warming."
Have you actually read this quote?  Read it again.  Then explain how it backs up your point.

Uh, scientists can be put under pressure by both sides?  It doesn't matter if it is private industry or government.  Arguing that his sources are untainted is ludicrous! 

No attempt to prove my sources were wrong!  Thankfully,

So environmentalists are bought and paid for.  But industry spokespeople they're just doing it for the public interest.   ::)

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2012/02/16/ut-austin-study-says-fracking-hasnt.html

Whoever UT Austin is, he or she must obviously be bought and paid for by industry spokepeople! 

I'll help you with this one:  They were obviously pressured by the higher ups in the University to produce this slanted piece of garbage to pander to the big-oil crowd and also ensure they get their donation money!?

But hey, for the sake of argument lets leave out the issues regarding the environmental impact of fracking for gas, since we cannot agree upon a neutral 3rd party source that we both accept as unbiased.  That basically leaves us with: why not?  Its going to provide cheaper fuel for our residents while contributing money to the government coffers.  BONUS!
http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2012/02/15/shell-oil-invests-39m-in-ut.html

Bingo! 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2011/12/09/questions-emerge-on-epas-wyoming-fracking-study/
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Leafsnail

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2012, 05:57:42 pm »

So the fact that most climate scientists say they are pressured in the opposite direction to the direction you're suggesting they're being pressured is evidence for your idea?
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Aqizzar

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2012, 05:58:27 pm »

So... What then?  Your position is that all sources are unreliable?  And yet you'll continue to point to the ones that say fracking is fine / pipelines are safe / global warming's a myth, because...

How about this then.  Forget sources.  Let's just err on the side of options that don't have a undeniable history of ecological disaster.
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mainiac

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2012, 06:04:30 pm »

Oh god some scientific report somewhere made a mistake!  The magazine that's a mouthpiece of a well known conservative who has poured money into politics for a long time said so.  Well I'm convinced that global warming is a hoax.  Drill baby drill!

Likewise I learned recently that Copernicus made two serious mathematical errors in his famous calculations about orbits.  Naturally I immediately reverted to a geocentric view of astronomy.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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scriver

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2012, 06:08:51 pm »

I find it especially strange since most of these studies in no way proves it isn't the frackers fault, it just makes it possible for them to go "you can prove 101% it is us, so we don't have to take any responsibility!" even though people are still getting flamable tap water, or you know, poisoned from drinking it.
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chaoticag

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2012, 06:19:14 pm »

Bingo! 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2011/12/09/questions-emerge-on-epas-wyoming-fracking-study/
You know that the questions are by the editors of this website?
http://www.energyindepth.org/whats-eid/

Launched by the petroleum industry. Conflict of interest much?
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mainiac

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Re: Totally Rage Worthy Economic Issues Regarding America!
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2012, 06:35:35 pm »

Bingo! 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2011/12/09/questions-emerge-on-epas-wyoming-fracking-study/
You know that the questions are by the editors of this website?
http://www.energyindepth.org/whats-eid/

Launched by the petroleum industry. Conflict of interest much?

Against all expectations something informative actually comes out of this thread!

You don't need secretive conspiring forces to explain how the wealthy buy good press.  You just need to see what people they openly pay to publish things on their behalf.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.
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