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[Shurhaian]

Okay, I'm starting to get really fed up by strange moods.

With so many different kinds of rock out there, I was kind of nervous. But when my woodcutter went fey, claimed a craftsdwarf's workshop, and started hauling magnetite(um... wtf?), I thought all was well.

She brought three pieces in... and is now sitting there. "I must have rock!" she screams.

Do these dwarves have any IDEA how many kinds of rock there are, some of which might never be found on a given map(either because it's just not there or because of the statistical unlikelihood of digging into the right patch)?

Is there anything that checks to ensure strange moods will only use locally-available materials, or is it possible that (since they want rough, not cut, material) they could ask for something that simply doesn't exist on the map, sealing that dwarf's fate forever(and possibly others nearby if s/he goes berserk, especially since this is a woodcutter and thus has an axe)?

EDIT: This dwarf likes iron and sphalerite. Iron I have plenty that she's not picking up, so she doesn't want more of that. Sphalerite... I've never even seen on this map.

[ November 08, 2007: Message edited by: Shurhaian ]

[Raistlan]

I've had this problem quite a bit in the past myself, and it drives me nuts.  Worst was when I was on a mountain map, no wildlife, and I was under siege by goblins... my legendary miner got a mood and required shell.  Obviously I had none, and had no way of getting any, he ended up going beserk and due to his massive stats took out 4 other dwarves before my military put him down  

[Shurhaian]

Well, I'm not even talking moods that you could theoretically get materials for, but can't get right then for whatever reason. I mean moods that are impossible from the get-go, because there is simply no way to get, oh, microcline, for instance, on that map. (Since they want the rock, not blocks, you can't even pray for help from the traders.)

[Earthquake Damage]

Are you sure they want specific rocks?  I haven't noticed that.  I wouldn't be surprised, though, if they wanted a (non-)economic stone.  Maybe you have lots of non-economic crap and he wants something valuable instead.

[RPB]

Are you sure rock is the only thing she's screaming for?

[Align]

Yeah, they don't stop screaming for a material even once they have it.

[MindSnap]

I just turn fey moods off altogether - it is rare that a dwarf makes a really good artifact anyways.

[Zorromorph]

Personally I think it's good that they sometimes demand things you can't get.  Nobody's creative vision is limited only to the things they have at hand ... no reason why a dwarf shouldn't dream of something they can't see every day.

[I3erent]

Then they should take off into the world to find their shit imagine the possibilities of their adventures maybe the game could write you a short story of what happened when urist went abroad looking for that stone.....

[Shurhaian]

Demanding things they can't get might not be so bad if the consequences for failing to get it were less dire. As it is, a small start-up fortress can ill afford to lose one of its relatively few skilled craftsdwarves, and if a woodworker should go berserk, a fortress like this, with little military to speak of(all recruits if that), could get decimated.

So no, I don't agree that it's a good thing that they seek out unavailable materials.

I wound up trashing that fortress, as it turns out. Supposedly there was sand on the map... but it was listed as above loam in a particular biome. That biome, when I dug in, was loam from the get-go, until I hit rock.

So hard to find a decent start point... sigh.

[Nil Eyeglazed]

yes, game is too hard, losing isn't any fun, and i also think there shouldn't be any aggressive mobs or unknown map features

[Zorromorph]

I think if you feel that it's too extreme a loss -- turn fey moods off until you feel your fortress can handle it.  Personally I like the idea of random events like this, frankly I'd like it if you got fey moods from the beginning and could lose your only skilled miner in the first months if things fell wrong for you.  Otherwhise the game is too predictable and easy.  But for those who don't enjoy that type of thing -- turn them off if you like  .

[polpoint]

I love bad things happening, that is the best part - unknown crazy crap that you have to recover from (if you can). I finally had some serious fun today! I played on this insane map - a small place with a hydra right in front of you and tons of hostiles wandering around. After the hydra slaughtered the first trade caravan that came it suddenly decided to attack my fort (after just sitting right outside the whole 2 seasons) and broke down the locked doors and proceeded to slaughter everybody. It was great.

[BurnedToast]

quote:Originally posted by Nil Eyeglazed:
<STRONG>yes, game is too hard, losing isn't any fun, and i also think there shouldn't be any aggressive mobs or unknown map features</STRONG>

I'll assume you are being sarcastic.

There is a difference between being hard and being stupid. Hard is fun when it's fair, and losing is fun when it's because you messed up not because the game decided oops, you lose.

So, someone requiring a rare stone that's on the bottom level of your fort somewhere when you've only mined out 2 levels? Fair. You can search for that stone and maybe get it in time to save the day. Someone wanting a specific gem? Annoying, but fair - you could buy some from the traders (though likely they wouldn't last that long..) or even better stock up on one of each just in case.

Someone requiring a stone that you can't possibly get, ever, no matter what you do? Stupid and unfair.

[Stromko]

Agreed. Failing a challenge because you didn't prepare well enough and once the need becomes apparent it's way too late (for instance, a mooder wanting clear glass), that's totally part of Dwarf Fortress. Losing a dwarf because they want a material that might as well not even be in the game as far as they're concerned, is silly.

If you want a challenge you start on a Terrifying Glacier or Desert with no pick, no anvil, and don't build a depot. There is no 'challenge' to losing a random dwarf and having no way to save them, well, aside from locking them into the workshop and waiting for them to starve.

That's not that challenging, that's pretty elementary, the only certainty when they want a stone that doesn't exist on the map is that dwarf will die. It might be a different story if we could ask for it from the caravan, then it would come down to longterm preparation which is perfectly acceptable challenge in DF.

Moods /are/ a challenge, you still lose dwarves even when it's feasible to acquire what they want. Having to turn off moods because you don't want to lose a dwarf with no hope of recovery, would just decrease the challenge. It's a lose/lose.

[ November 10, 2007: Message edited by: Stromko ]