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[RedKing]

Somewhere right now, somebody is hard at work translating the Bible into Dolphinspeak. Little do we know that the Dolphins already have Dolphin Jesus.

[Rafal99]

Somewhere right now, somebody is hard at work translating the Bible into Dolphinspeak. Little do we know that the Dolphins already have Dolphin Jesus.

You got it wrong!
Bible?
We need to teach them to play Dwarf Fortress!

[DJ]

That's like using presence of eyeglasses to gauge somebody's education level.

*points back to the large amount of animals that fail the test*

So what? It's still a meaningless metric. Heck, a more logical measure would be complexity of social organization, in which case ants blow dolphins straight out of the water.

But yeah, if you want a real comparison, I'd like to see how your average dolphin (with sufficient training, of course) would fare against your average human in a game of chess.

[Dutchling]

Somewhere right now, somebody is hard at work translating the Bible into Dolphinspeak. Little do we know that the Dolphins already have Dolphin Jesus.

You got it wrong!
Bible?
We need to teach them to play Dwarf Fortress!

DF would need more rape if you want dolphins to play it.

[Chaoswizkid]

That's like using presence of eyeglasses to gauge somebody's education level.

*points back to the large amount of animals that fail the test*

So what? It's still a meaningless metric. Heck, a more logical measure would be complexity of social organization, in which case ants blow dolphins straight out of the water.

It isn't meaningless. If there is a group of animals that looks at a mirror and does not recognize that what it is seeing is an exact copy of itself, even after it repeatedly tries to interact with the reflection, then it can be said they are not entirely self-aware. If you want better examples of self-awareness tests performed with dolphins, I'll reshare this: http://colinallen.dnsalias.org/Secure/TCA/herman-final.pdf
Look towards the middle of page 9.

As for social organization, I don't see your point at all. Ants respond instinctively, especially to pheromones. Their social ties lie in "The hive must survive." Cetaceans form complicated groups and alliances that do not necessarily involve hunting or some other measure of survival. I'd have to say they trump ants every time, unless you know of some research on ants that show they can socialize beyond survival.

But yeah, if you want a real comparison, I'd like to see how your average dolphin (with sufficient training, of course) would fare against your average human in a game of chess.

Personally, I have confidence that dolphins would be able to play the game competently once they understand the rules and there is some capability in place for them to be able to play. That doesn't really mean anything, of course, but I agree; that would probably be a better comparison for intelligence.

[DJ]

If an animal can do something that humans can but many other animals can't, it doesn't imply at all that it's as intelligent as humans. Self-awareness is but a tiny fraction of what makes a human mind.

Complexity of social organization means the degree of specialization of individual members within society. Specialization is what got us from caves to skyscrapers. And it's virtually non-existent in dolphins.

As for chess, those articles of yours seem to be suggesting that dolphins are *more* intelligent than humans, in which case your average dolphin shouldn't just hold his own against your average human, he should pwn Kasparov. I somehow doubt that would happen, but feel free to prove me wrong.

[RedKing]

Meanwhile the Dolphin Council says, "The land-things are capable of some ability to swim and to ride the giant metal fish. But they remain unable to play Krrkrrchrkkch and show no signs of being able to spot a fish on their own. They *might* be clever, but we're not sure about true intelligence yet."

[GlyphGryph]

The mirror test is miserable. A large portion of HUMANITY fails the mirror test, uncoached - turns out it's cultural!

It is one of those tests where a positive result means something (but not much) and a negative result means nothing, and yet people pretend that a negative result has some meaning.

It rests on several assumptions that have nothing to do with intelligence:
a) That an animal can recognize itself in a mirror. (This is the only part related to intelligence)
b) The animal cares about a dot on its head.
c) The animal wants to remove the dot.
d) The animal thinks it should remove the dot.
e) The animal thinks its okay to remove the dot.
f) A host of other unfounded assumptions having nothing to do with intelligence

A much better use of the mirror test is the COACHED mirror test - can an animal be trained to recognize itself in the mirror and point out a dot somewhere on its body, that it can't otherwise see? This is the only way to consistently get humans to pass the mirror test, after all. And, unsurprisingly enough, a great number of animals pass the test once they realize what it is we want them to do.

I'm sorry, the "mirror test", as stands, is about as meaningful as the rat-based "heroin test" that proved people would destroy their lives due to heroin given the chance. Or the LSD tests where they stuck someone in a bare room in a hostile environment and determined the large number of negative responses meant all responses always were negative. Or the numerous studies that assumed that every person in the world is exactly like a USA psychology undergrad.

It's bullshit, and people using bullshit extrapolations from crappy tests and studies infuriates me.

All that said:
Dolphin's seem to be pretty smart. It's a shame there's no concerted effort to really find out how smart or in what way, that isn't plagued by morons pretending to know what they are doing. It's like the founding of psychology all over again up in here...

[Levi]

It's bullshit, and people using bullshit extrapolations from crappy tests and studies infuriates me.

Agree so much.

[Flying Dice]

As for chess, those articles of yours seem to be suggesting that dolphins are *more* intelligent than humans, in which case your average dolphin shouldn't just hold his own against your average human, he should pwn Kasparov. I somehow doubt that would happen, but feel free to prove me wrong.

Deep Blue was a dolphin brain in a jar.

[DJ]

Not just outnumber us, out-biomass us.

[Max White]

Ah, I wonder, if you take the average processing power of the human mind times the number of humans on earth, vs the average processing power of another creature times its population, who comes out on top?

[Levi]

Ah, I wonder, if you take the average processing power of the human mind times the number of humans on earth, vs the average processing power of another creature times its population, who comes out on top?

Probably some bacteria. 

[Sirus]

Ah, I wonder, if you take the average processing power of the human mind times the number of humans on earth, vs the average processing power of another creature times its population, who comes out on top?

Probably some bacteria. 

I don't think bacteria have any processing power to speak of. Gazillions of bacteria x 0 power each = 0.

[Max White]

How do they hunt food if their actions are directed by sporadic chemical impulses, as opposed to a more elegant function?