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[ChairmanPoo]

That you can train dolphins to tag mines and such doesn't mean that they're equal in intelligence to humans, let alone superior. This is not to say that they shouldn't be respected, or that I don't rage at whale hunting, but I think that to make such claims is antrophomorphize these animals too damn much.

[Grek]

It's a research facility that is funded by tourism.

This.

The DRC has a strong monatary incentive towards backing whatever sort of dolphin-related research will get the dolphins the most press, as the more people think about dolphins, the more likely it is that they'll consider going to their dolphin park and spend money. There should be a healthy does of skepticism from any sort of controversial findings they support.

Basically, what I'm saying is that the Daily mail is a trash rag and that I'll beleive it when I see the journal article.

[Rafal99]

As for the mirror test:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

Dolphins aren't exclusively the only animal that pass it.
(it is interesting read btw)

Edit: Fixed the broken link.

[Chaoswizkid]

As for the mirror test:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

Dolphins aren't exclusively the only animal that pass it.
(it is interesting read btw)

I don't believe anyone said that. I've known for quite some time that elephants are also able to pass the test.

It's a research facility that is funded by tourism.

This.

The DRC has a strong monatary incentive towards backing whatever sort of dolphin-related research will get the dolphins the most press, as the more people think about dolphins, the more likely it is that they'll consider going to their dolphin park and spend money. There should be a healthy does of skepticism from any sort of controversial findings they support.

Basically, what I'm saying is that the Daily mail is a trash rag and that I'll beleive it when I see the journal article.

*sigh*
You're missing the point then. The thing with the Daily Mail is simply something that is generating interest currently. You can find it on other websites and media. That's the one I linked to. Apparently, the next time I post something with a headline, I should make sure to include the thirty other possibly more reputable places which host similar-if-not-verbatim information.

Beyond that, the group the Daily Mail article is talking about is simply referencing the research. They are the ones taking the opinion that there's enough evidence to conclude that humanity should recognize cetaceans as individuals, to some related capacity that we view members of our own species. They do not claim they have made scientific breakthroughs themselves (As far as I am aware).

As for scholarly journal entries, is this perhaps more to your liking? The author would seem to know what he's talking about.

Perhaps you should look for the journal articles yourself, instead of insinuating that they somehow don't exist because you haven't seen them. That may sound harsh, but that is what it seems like your argument boils down to to me. They do exist, I just don't feel like trawling the entire internet for information on the subject; I've poured over most everything years ago, so this is not much of a learning experience.

[Grakelin]

The minute we give dolphins equal rights is the minute they take advantage and annex our civilization.

Don't be a stepping stone for limbless beings.

[Ogdibus]

.

[SirAaronIII]

If they actually do end up rising to power and try to usurp us, I think humans are gonna win.

or will they??

[rarborman]

This sort of shit is what happens when they let elves have science.

They are unable to do shit about it, fuck them, dogs are smart doesnt mean they are people, apes got thumbs dont mean they get to be people, if they cant stop people from doing things to them by using intelegent communication they arnt good enough to be people.

when a dolphin asks me for freedom I'll change my mind.

[kaijyuu]

I for one welcome our new cetalucean overlords.

when a dolphin asks me for freedom I'll change my mind.

Do you speak dolphin? One probably could if you could understand them.

[Pnx]

I think it's incredibly racist that octopii are completely unmentioned in this.

[SirAaronIII]

It probably has something to do with how they look. Octopi aren't as cute as dolphins and the like.

Which reminds me, why do people think dolphins are cute again?

[Glowcat]

I think it's incredibly racist that octopii are completely unmentioned in this.

But, with their lifespan we'd barely enculturate and educate them before the generation dies off. Better to just pretend they're not intelligent.

[Ancre]

try and find the studies where it shows that cetaceans have their own languages, dialects, and even have distinguishable names.

I don't want to get into the argument, but I find that very interesting. I would like to read those studies !

If dolphins do have a language, all this could easily be solved : we just have to learn it and talk to them.

[rarborman]

If its not at least trying to speak human it doesnt count, animal languages mean nothing important, and learning it is stupid, we have better control over the world, they should learn our language.

[Grek]

Three claims are being made by the conference:
1. Dolphins are as smart as humans.
2. Therefore, they should be counted as people.
3. Therefore, we should afford them the same rights as other people.

Number 1 isn't backed up by much evidence. The journal article linked on this page says that dolphins can understand simple but grammatically novel instructions from their trainers. Admittedly, that is rather impressive for an animal, but parrots can also do that, as can computer programs. That's not enough to justify saying that dolphins are as smart as humans, let alone that they should be thought of as people.

Number 2 is also out. Even if we assume, despite the lack of evidence, that dolphins are as smary as any human, that's not enough to call them people. As crudely as rarborman put it, being able to do things that a person can do does not a person make: There is no parity between a person and a dolphin. The dolphin cannot teach a person to communicate with it, holds no power over any human and makes no attempt to reform its behavior based on moral concerns.

Even Number 3 is unsupported. Male dolphins gang-rape female dolphins in order to reproduce. They murder infants born to other dolphins and kill porpoises for no known reason. If we provisionally assume that dolphin are as smart as people and that dolphins should qualify as people, the correct and moral response would be to immediately imprison the entire population until such time as we can communicate with them and introduce the sort of social contract and justice system that keeps humans from acting like complete monsters. Because if they actually are people, and you're not using that as a backformed justification for why they should be protected (as I suspect the conference is), than dolphins should be the world's biggest 'human'-rights violation to date.