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[JimiD]

You could always just turn off invaders in the init file?

Might be simpler?

[Supernerd]

Making an underground tree farm is incredibly easy if you have dirt layers. Just dig out a large area in a soil layer after breaching the underground caverns and don't build anything on it. It'll be filled with harvestable plants and wood giving mushrooms in no time whether you want it to or not! You can even pasture animals there, thus protecting them from deranged goblins etc.

[simonthedwarf]

ninja: requires active input

[LilGunmanX]

Well, its not 100%, but this works pretty well:

Code: [Select]

###################
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
###################
#:  Wall
P:  Pit, 10ish Z-Levels Deep
T:  Wood training spear traps.

Put this as the entrance of your fortress(with a ceiling over it in case of flyers).  The Wood spear traps don't do much for damage, but enemies will dodge them and fall into the pits of death.  Since Caravans are friendly, they won't trigger the traps and will make it through just fine.

This style of trapped entrance works great in an evil region with zombiefication.  Anything that falls down into the corpse pit and survives gets torn up by all who preceded them.

Forcing the enemies to dodge into a gutter on either side of your entrance... I like that! The only problems I foresee with it are that, aside from the fact that the wooden spear traps would also hit your caravans, there is also the big issue that, after awhile, the zombified creatures and body parts would start to build up in your gutters and eventually overthrow your fortress by way of framerate. May I suggest you fill the gutters with magma? Or, if you're feeling really bold, you could hollow out the entire area underneath your trapped path, and then create a deep gap between that area, where your undead will be rendered harmless by the distance, and another, on which you can station your marksdwarves, or train up your hunters. Use bone or wooden bolts, and you'll have an endless supply of practice, while yet keeping your framerate low. Once you've built up too much a surplus of undead, you can flood that area with magma from the sides, and it will all drain helplessly into the gap between that area and your marksdwarves.

FOOOO=MMMMM
XXXXXX=MMMMM
XXXXXX=MMMMM
XXXXXX=MMMMM
FOOOO=MMMMM

X = Floor, with trapped area directly above.
O = Floor, with the pitfall directly above.
F = Floodgate, built into the side-wall, behind which lies a store of magma.
= = A very deep gap, at the bottom of which should be a series of pumps, to re-circulate the magma back up to the magma-stores. Alternatively, you could have some fun with it and drain it into your caverns, to kill whatever nasties might be hiding down there.
M = Floor, on which you should station your marksdwarves.

Creativity is fun.

[Levi]

The caravans will be okay, because these aren't repeating traps, just normal traps.  They won't get hit unless they fall asleep on them.

The zombification should in theory be okay, as the pathing algorithm ought to cut out really early as it only needs to check a few tiles to see that there is no where to go.  Then again, magma certainly won't hurt things. 

I like to actually make it deep enough that everything dies on impact, then have an entrance into my fortress from the pits so I can collect the goblinite (or humanite/elfite).

[blue sam3]

Tree farms are easy, really. Just a massive, muddy cavern set as restricted, perhaps with unrestricted, paved paths to allow access.


As far as keeping invaders out, I'd suggest an indwardly-raising bridge linked to an enemy-triggered pressure plate and a water-triggered pressure plate (non-enemy accessible) that has water held away from it by something supported solely by a support that is enemy accessible (and just outside your door) to get the building destroyers too). Add a second bridge further out, facing inwards linked to the same stuff, a magma inlet linked to the same stuff (after a delay), and a timer to empty it again and drop the bridges, and you have a pretty good death trap that kills invaders but not miners/traders.

[quintilius]

the problem isnt keeping invaders out - rather it's getting them to come inside...  what i'm seeing is goblin ambushers showing up 3 seconds before the caravan on top of the caravan spawn point - which isnt nearly enough time to kick off any traps or let any of my defenders get over there.  Even if i leave the drawbridges down they dont ever bother coming inside.
I leave penned animals out there - so i know when they show up and from where - and the timing is simply too close to do anything about it much of the time.

I've had that happen in the old verson - but mostly ambushers would show up from some other point on the map and wander over... i think they're following the caravans a lot more closely now

[Keldor]

I guess that means you need to build a guard outpost at the end of your road to protect the caravans.

[RAKninja]

ninja: requires active input

replace lever with pressure plate.

[Azkanan]

1. Ditches.
2. Bridge.

[ASCIt]

You could always just turn off invaders in the init file?

Might be more elven?

come now.

[FearfulJesuit]

It might be realistic at some point that doors would have to lock and unlock with a key, and then you would have a locksmith, and each caravan that came each year would get a key to your door to get in. Woe betide you if the goblins grab the key.

[Nan]

There's a simple way to let immigrants in which doesn't allow passage to enemies.

Build a retracting bridge which dumps whatever is on it safely into your fortress (ie 1z drop). Make the retracting bridge a meeting zone. The retracting bridge should be accessable via a passage from the outside, in the passage, next to the retracting bridge, have a pressure plate set to be triggered by friendlies linked to the retracting bridge. When immigrants come they will unerringly seek out the meeting zone. When they reach the bridge, it will open and dump them inside.

Enemies wont seek out a meeting zone, unless there are dwarves in it. To prevent any enemies slipping through by sheer luck, build a one-way hatch thingy, where, along the path, you have a pressure plate (set to be triggered by enemies) followed by the hatch over a hole, enemies will trigger the plate which opens the hatch, preventing them moving forward. This wont stop trap-avoiders, but trap-avoiders wont trigger the bridge anyway.

It's also possible to use water flowing over a ledge in conjunction with a meeting zone, to flush immigrants into the fortress. Has the advantage of cleaning them and giving them the waterfall happy thought, but requires setting up the running water, which is slightly more technical and MAY cause slightly more of a fps hit (but flowing water doesn't break pathing, unlike a bridge opening, so it might work either way).

[Flying Dice]

I've always used a rather simple method. You will have two entrances: an aboveground keep, and a 1-tile wide tunnel. The second level of the keep is a walkway only accessable from within the fortress, and has fortifications opening onto both the outside and inside. The trade depot is on the ground within the keep, and the passage between the outer bridge and keep proper is filled with cage traps. The third level is the roof. You will have a bridge, raising inward, 3 tiles wide, which when open will span a 4-5 tile dry moat, preferably 3-4 z-levels deep. When a a caravan or migrants come, or when you need to send out work parties, the bridge is lowered. At all other times, it is kept raised.

 Past the keep toward the fortress proper is a second bridge of the same design, though the pit is only 1-2 z-levels deep. There are fortifications positioned to either side of the inner bridge, accessable by the same route as the keep walkway. In normal circumstances, the inner bridge will be open. When enemies are on the map, it is raised, blocking off the passageway, and marksdwarves are deployed to the keep walkway. The reason for the system is this: if migrants or a caravan arrive during a siege, you can open the outer bridge, allowing them into the keep. Once all friendlies are within the keep, the outer bridge is closed. If hostiles manage to cross the bridge, they are either captured in the traps or shot down by the marksdwarves. Once the keep interior is secure, the inner bridge may be raised, allowing migrants to enter or traders and haulers to exit. In the meantime, the marksdwarves continue firing at any enemies within range of the walls.

As for the second entrance, it is a long, winding, heavily trapped tunnel. I typically start with a 12-15 z-level deep dodge 'em bridge, and then use varied repeating speartrap halls, s-shaped halls filled with weapon traps, etc. At the end is another bridge and pit, which remains open, causing invaders to path through the traps. If they ever get too close, the bridge is closed, and they either freeze in place (death, in the repeater hall) or path back out. If you're having trouble making them leave, you can try briefly opening the outer keep bridge.


Additions can be made, such as putting spikes beneath the outer keep bridge and weapon traps within, and using it on repeat to catapult invaders. The main danger here is that goblinite can be atomsmashed if you aren't careful. Also note that any repeater trap halls should be inactive (and possibly, you should have an outer bridge with which to seal the tunnel entirely at need), as migrants and wagonless caravans will often try to path through it if the main keep is closed. Also, consider adding a butchery to the bottom of the dodge 'em pit, if you play with dwarves with no compunctions about eating sentient beings.


Anyhow, that is what I typically use for defense when playing with higher intensity combat mods, and I've easily weathered invasions of 150+ enemies with that sort of setup.

[Nil Eyeglazed]

Even discounting building destroyers, doors require action from the player, in that they require locking and unlocking.

Building destroyers are a problem, but not an insurmountable one-- artifact hatches and doors are indestructible.  Regular hatches are also indestructible from underneath.

If you're willing to accept the minimal interaction involved in unlocking a door or hatch, it is trivial to build an impervious entrance:

Code: [Select]


 #####
 #h
 _/#\_ ->to fortress
 #####

side view; _ is floor, # is wall, / and \ are ramps, h is hatch cover


Such a structure can be made three tiles wide to allow the passage of caravans, as desired.  Building destroyers will be unable to destroy the hatches from the left side of the structure (untested in 34, but true in previous versions).  Flyers will be unable to pass when the hatch is locked.

Use of an artifact quality door or hatch makes things simpler.  (Again, untested in 34, but true in previous versions.)

In order to reduce the amount of interaction even further, one must rely on pressure plates.  It's possible to make an entrance into your fortress that can only be traversed by civilians.  First, you have to filter out building destroyers:

Code: [Select]


 ###
 
  H      -> to fortress
 
 ###

top view; H is an artifact quality hatch installed on the floor (there are probably other possiblities for furniture, but hatch covers are proven in previous versions); path is 3 wide to allow caravans

Building destroyers will congregate at the artifact hatch cover, trying to destroy it.  For long term safety, you'll need a way to clear the area.  Atom-smashing is a simple way to do this, as the BDs won't occupy the same tile as the hatch cover-- don't want to atom-smash your artifact!  There are a number of other ways to clear the area though.

Next, you want to separate creatures that are too small to set off pressure plates and creatures that avoid traps.  To do this, set up a fork like this:

Code: [Select]


 #####
 ##d
  ^###
 ##h
 #####

top view: / is ramp covered by hatch cover, h is hatch cover over empty space, d is door, ^ is pressure plate activated by civilians, all weights, linked to both hatch and door


Creatures that are trap avoid and small creatures will take the south path.  Other creatures will be unable to.  Route the trap avoid (bottom) path through a long bridge connected to a repeater, that drops trap avoids back outside (ie, onto a path that leads through your entrance again.)  I believe that fliers will take the north path, but I'm not certain.

If you want a 3-tile wide version of this for caravans, I'm not sure about it, but it should be possible.  (Can't use doors in threes, so you have to use ramps covered by hatches to get an instant path-opened-by-plate effect.)

Note that during this part of your entrance, you may lose a few pets, things like cats.  Also, keep in mind that trap avoids may follow other critters through the lower paths.  You can repeat this part of the path multiple times to reduce that risk.

Finally, you need to separate the civilians from the goblins.  This is pretty much the same thing as above, only your pressure plate is NOT set to civilians trigger, and the south path is a valid path, whereas the north path goes through the same kind of repeating bridge setup.

Note that your creatures will have a route outdoors, but it probably won't be the same route they take to get inside.  Expect them to get dropped by some repeating bridges on their way out.  Also be careful of fliers with this setup.  You can make flier proof versions, but they're more complicated-- you've got to change the repeating bridges to containment traps, then have a way to clear the containment of critters, and you need to prevent civilian access to the containment traps in attempts to path outside.

Anytime you start messing with civilians trigger pressure plates, you can start some pathing problems-- but these designs shouldn't be problematic, because every time civilian path is blocked, an alternate path is opened.

All of this is based on my experience with earlier versions, not with v34.  I haven't done extensive testing with the effects of "civilians trigger" pressure plates on different kinds of critters.  For instance, I remember merchants and diplomats being affected by "civilians trigger" plates, but I have no idea about how wagons are affected.  Neither am I certain about how map "residents" (cave critters) are affected.

EDIT: Turns out that caravans won't go up a hatched ramp.  (Actually, it's weird-- they'll go up a hatched ramp, so long as the CENTRAL ramp isn't hatched.  Whatever.)  So the prospect of a no-intervention-required, siege-proof map that allows caravans is out.  But if you're willing to give up caravans, you can do it.