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[Splint]

I mean the situation is not THAT bad, there's plenty of booze and plenty to eat youve got mass steel and magma forges. ( and 66 iron sarcophagi which i made when i panicked)

I noticed when I got spammed with "Not enoug iron m'lord" from the iron coffin forges.
I'll just try my best to salvage this trainwreck.

Seriously. How are this many dwarves still alive let alone able to function!? There's dead trolls INSIDE the fortress!

[arphen]

if you check the recent combat log the last troll was 140+ page zerged to death by a couple of dogs and several recruits until the last axedorf came by
I'm going to sleep for a few hours now though, its like 7 am

[xaldin]

Gotta say that was an interesting way to get the lava up. I personally never use a piston style, tend to prefer pumps with multiple firewalls to ensure that dwarves can't get into the stuff even by accident and to be able to replenish in case of emergency or desire to weaponize. Personal style issue, I'd take steps to get a magma stack prepped though to defend a moat around the surface.

The surface layout honestly is a total obscure maze to anyone who didn't actually make it without serious study. Design also doesn't really account for long term growth, its a 'in the moment' type layout in my mind. As it grows I don't see how to keep it semi optimized for movement to jobs/supplies/etc. I like some of the underground layout though it has potential, once you sit and figure the stuff out.  That surface layout though just screams "come beat the snot out of me sieges" type of chaos. Glad it isn't an evil biome. That'd have just been icing on the cake.

Fact that trolls got into the fort is the real problem. I'd stop using iron for coffins, use it for weapons. Set up a quick and dirty hospital in hopes of saving/salvaging a couple more of the wounded and take steps to secure that surface entry route against another attack.

[Splint]

Man. All you were missing was the rock conscript hammers I've modded in adn this would be how I imagine Spearbreakers coming to an end. Last stand desperate charge deal.

But seriously, hats off for this challenge. How well i can salvage it yas yet tbd.

Yeah, the fact i saw dead trolls in there is what worried me. And for a minute I thought a scrub was rotting in his bed, but it was just his evening meal when you had him defend the hiv- I MEAN UM FORTRESS. Yeah, fortress.

[arphen]

There's plenty ( plenty) of steel weapons, i made like 600 steel bars and turned that into 20 sets of full squad armor along with steel axes. And i have another iron set for backup.
I'm on a very weak rig so i played with a pop cap of 80 and i dont like pump stacks for the fact that they consume masses of resources ( especially with the new version ) and are a pain in the ass to set up.
The top layout was actually well thought through, because the gobos would have to enter the fortress over a long narrow bridge to get to my barracks via stairs.. the problem was that my dwarves ran out  of my fort chasing elk bird riders thus leaving the fort open to those stray trolls....
the elk bird riders were like a lot faster and my dwarves just kept chasing them whilst the marksgobos took them down, it was a very sad battle.

[Splint]

There's plenty ( plenty) of steel weapons, i made like 600 steel bars and turned that into 20 sets of full squad armor along with steel axes. And i have another iron set for backup.
I'm on a very weak rig so i played with a pop cap of 80 and i dont like pump stacks for the fact that they consume masses of resources ( especially with the new version ) and are a pain in the ass to set up.
The top layout was actually well thought through, because the gobos would have to enter the fortress over a long narrow bridge to get to my barracks via stairs.. the problem was that my dwarves ran out  of my fort chasing elk bird riders thus leaving the fort open to those stray trolls....
the elk bird riders were like a lot faster and my dwarves just kept chasing them whilst the marksgobos took them down, it was a very sad battle.

Ah, dwarven stupidity at its finest. Can't seem to stand in a stright battle line, but can figure out how to balance a fortress on demon soap pillars alone.

[xaldin]

There's plenty ( plenty) of steel weapons, i made like 600 steel bars and turned that into 20 sets of full squad armor along with steel axes. And i have another iron set for backup.
I'm on a very weak rig so i played with a pop cap of 80 and i dont like pump stacks for the fact that they consume masses of resources ( especially with the new version ) and are a pain in the ass to set up.
The top layout was actually well thought through, because the gobos would have to enter the fortress over a long narrow bridge to get to my barracks via stairs.. the problem was that my dwarves ran out  of my fort chasing elk bird riders thus leaving the fort open to those stray trolls....
the elk bird riders were like a lot faster and my dwarves just kept chasing them whilst the marksgobos took them down, it was a very sad battle.

Actually pump stacks don't have to consume huge amounts of resources (fps or material) there a few designs that have nearly no impact in fact. Plus it doesn't have to be always on, just when you need it. Materials for them aren't that bad especially at this point in your fort or earlier if you hadn't gotten taken out back and violated by all the trolls.

I tend to play on 200 dwarf pop caps so I account for 300 with children (may have to increase that with the current migrant waves) so my forts tend to show that. For 80 I can see the design being more feasible if still a bit awkward feeling at least to me.

I have to say while I understand what your idea was on the top layout, I just don't see it working mostly because dwarves aren't recruited for their brains. Traps would be my next step, set up a parameter with dogs/cats/something then traps around the fort then a way to seal the base proper while leaving soldiers a route to the battlefield to protect the workers. That way at worst your army gets destroyed but your infrastructure remains undaunted. Least from surface attack. From caverns and HFS requires a different approach.

Additionally you may want to think about wider hallways. There's a lot of traffic congestion potential around the stockpiles in the facility. Also squaring the staircases up and down also tends to be bit more efficient than a line of staircases as far as dwarves getting to where they're going. 

Good luck Splint. If you can get a decent migrant wave and not get attacked for little bit you should recover pretty well. Resources are there which is normally the deciding factor. Long as you have food and drink you should be able to recover and get back on track.

[Splint]

One can only hope. But I should be able to get my bearings eventually. Might restrcutre things so i can understand them, but I'll get by.

[Talvieno]

Also don't dig into the caverns, there are like 3 forgotten beasts lingering there...

And now I wish i had my railguns.

What, you didn't before?

[Splint]

Also don't dig into the caverns, there are like 3 forgotten beasts lingering there...

And now I wish i had my railguns.

What, you didn't before?

Can't mod in the reactions to produce them in an already genned world.

[arphen]

There's plenty ( plenty) of steel weapons, i made like 600 steel bars and turned that into 20 sets of full squad armor along with steel axes. And i have another iron set for backup.
I'm on a very weak rig so i played with a pop cap of 80 and i dont like pump stacks for the fact that they consume masses of resources ( especially with the new version ) and are a pain in the ass to set up.
The top layout was actually well thought through, because the gobos would have to enter the fortress over a long narrow bridge to get to my barracks via stairs.. the problem was that my dwarves ran out  of my fort chasing elk bird riders thus leaving the fort open to those stray trolls....
the elk bird riders were like a lot faster and my dwarves just kept chasing them whilst the marksgobos took them down, it was a very sad battle.

Actually pump stacks don't have to consume huge amounts of resources (fps or material) there a few designs that have nearly no impact in fact. Plus it doesn't have to be always on, just when you need it. Materials for them aren't that bad especially at this point in your fort or earlier if you hadn't gotten taken out back and violated by all the trolls.

I tend to play on 200 dwarf pop caps so I account for 300 with children (may have to increase that with the current migrant waves) so my forts tend to show that. For 80 I can see the design being more feasible if still a bit awkward feeling at least to me.

I have to say while I understand what your idea was on the top layout, I just don't see it working mostly because dwarves aren't recruited for their brains. Traps would be my next step, set up a parameter with dogs/cats/something then traps around the fort then a way to seal the base proper while leaving soldiers a route to the battlefield to protect the workers. That way at worst your army gets destroyed but your infrastructure remains undaunted. Least from surface attack. From caverns and HFS requires a different approach.

Additionally you may want to think about wider hallways. There's a lot of traffic congestion potential around the stockpiles in the facility. Also squaring the staircases up and down also tends to be bit more efficient than a line of staircases as far as dwarves getting to where they're going. 

Good luck Splint. If you can get a decent migrant wave and not get attacked for little bit you should recover pretty well. Resources are there which is normally the deciding factor. Long as you have food and drink you should be able to recover and get back on track.

Thinking in my terms of play, 50* blocks + 50 * corkscrew+ 50* pipes is a goddamn lot. i coulda spent it all in weapons.
All the piston took was like 5 digging commands and a couple of hatches

[miauw62]

This is quite a intresting discussion, it also amuses me that splints title (or whatever you guys call it on these forums) fits this thread very well.

[arphen]

I would build it like that all the same again( and i will) but i will add a long spiral for my entrance.
I DONT REGRET NOTHING

[xaldin]

Thinking in my terms of play, 50* blocks + 50 * corkscrew+ 50* pipes is a goddamn lot. i coulda spent it all in weapons.
All the piston took was like 5 digging commands and a couple of hatches

I can see your point but reality is with your play settings you wouldn't have dwarves to use all of that anyways with the fort as it is  (though as an aside I tend to get every dwarf eventually trained in at least novice level weapon something and outfit them when possible with armor so even 'civilians' can protect themselves). Weighed against being able to at will flood the surface with magma to flush intruders, or reroute based on changing design I just think it might be a good tradeoff in the long run even if initially you start with the piston method and later map a pump stack to it down the road. It opens up a lot of options that you don't really have with a standard piston which is really my point. Build for tomorrow not today (after you get a beachhead going anyways).

Another idea you might want is some interior defenses. A defense in depth concept. Could be as simple as fortifications facing the stairwells with corridors behind them for marksmen dwarves or a hallway with a ballista down at one end with a field of fire.  I like to have a cage trap or two inside as well as gates to seal off sections of the fort but I think I mentioned my abundance of caution (wife says I'm paranoid, I tell her it isn't paranoia when they really are out to get you). Maybe a black box room that you can seal someone away in for a long period of time to allow migrants to come in case of near fort destruction.  Right now you rely on essentially two forms of defense:  parameter channeling the enemy and dwarves being up to the fight. Personally with a limited number of dwarves I'd stack the terrain features more in their favor.

[Garath]

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