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[THE_SLAYA]

I personally always like the killer builds because player advantages can make all the difference in the world. The fact that you have two +STR GRs just gives you all the more reason as those two will be harder to stop and can be a much bigger threat on defense as well. The stormvermin can excel at finding one tough enemy and removing them from the pitch quickly once they have Claw and MB so they don't necessarily have to stay engaged with anyone to allow for counter hits.

[Aslandus]

I find guard is more reliable than removal, better to have more ability to put the enemy on the ground than to rely on them staying down... It's not just for teams that stand around to hit, it's also for teams that tend to get caught in huge clumps, which can happen easily, and your blitzers are some of your more durable players...

That said, if you're not having any trouble holding the line against bashier teams then killer might be a better build for you, they can't hit you back if they're dead...

Personally, I tend to put both my blitzers,  first guard for the versatility, then mighty blow for the murder, then tackle for reliability, and avoid piling on like the plague because putting your own guy on the ground where he's not helping, coupled with the tendency to knock people out of KOs and into stuns is annoying as hell... Go for claw on doubles though, armor piercing is gonna be important with all these undead and dwarf teams around...

[Criptfeind]

coupled with the tendency to knock people out of KOs and into stuns is annoying as hell...

It's been a while since I've had a guy with piling on, but don't you get to chose if you use it or not?

[Aslandus]

coupled with the tendency to knock people out of KOs and into stuns is annoying as hell...

It's been a while since I've had a guy with piling on, but don't you get to chose if you use it or not?

I think you can turn it off before you make the block, but it doesn't ask after you successfully block whether you want to throw your guy on the ground to reroll the injury/armor roll or not, it just does it... I can't remember how to turn off abilities though, but I'd probably leave it off almost all the time if I knew how...

Edit: I just found that you can go into options and tell the game to ask you whether you want to use the skill or not. I'd still hold off on it though since there are few situations where a badly hurt opponent and a prone player are better than a KOed opponent and a standing player...

[monk12]

coupled with the tendency to knock people out of KOs and into stuns is annoying as hell...

It's been a while since I've had a guy with piling on, but don't you get to chose if you use it or not?

You do get a choice, though Cyanide defaults to "always use"- remember to toggle those options!

As far as Stormvermin go, they're your piece removers. You don't need them to handle the agility game, as Gutters are more than enough for that (especially if you have a Thrower to support them.) You can build them for pure support, but who else is going to be hitting? If I need an assist on a block, Gutter Runners are never out of range, and if I need that assist in the middle of the pile I need to ask myself why I'm sending my rats in there instead of letting the other guy come to me. I don't recall if you're running a Rat Ogre; they tandem pretty well with Guard Stormvermin. And of course, options for ST skills are limited on Skaven, and even the most high-octane offense can benefit from a bit of guard to tear that little hole your Gutters need.

The Skaven I'm running in Main, I've got one of each build. I took Mighty Blow as the first skill on the "protective" Guard Skaven, though, since it's a very "Boring But Practical" type of skill I like to see on all my players who are designed to hit. I prefer Frenzy before Piling On myself, as I consider my players to be more useful on their feet than on the pitch, and it lets me mix in Guard once their other core killing skills are in place. I've done CPOMB builds before, though never in the mass quantities that make them truly effective (and universally hated.)

I can't remember how to turn off abilities though, but I'd probably leave it off almost all the time if I knew how...

Settings -> Options -> Optional Skill Presets. There's a lot of skills you really want the game to ask whether you want to use or not.

[THE_SLAYA]

All matches played and the main league has advanced!!

Week Nine (and ten) Main League Match-ups:
Kanil - Shimmering Dragons vs Aslandus - TOO SPOOKY
THE_SLAYA - SLAYA'S SVENS vs monk12 - Monk's Mountebanks
i2amroy - Fightin Fairies vs Sinistar - The Jolly Waaaaagh!abonds

I'll be advancing the league next Monday as always, let me know if there are any issues.

On a side note, Monk and I have a decent chance of playing each other in the main league the next three matches. I'm not sure if I should be excited or scared about that though, lol

[SpottedWobbegong]

I have a few questions:
-How could one play in the main league with an undeveloped dark elf team?
-How many sides the block die has?
-What's your opinion about assassins?
-What's my "level of play"(I ask it from those I've already played with)?
-How can you level up a goblin fanatic?

[Kanil]

I have a few questions:

-How could one play in the main league with an undeveloped dark elf team?
I'm not sure what you mean. If you're asking how to sign up, you have to wait for the season to end. But it's ending kinda soon, and we'll have signups and you can apply then. If you're asking if a new team can play in the main league, it can. If you're asking if a new team is viable in the main league, it depends heavily on your skill level and what team you're playing.

-How many sides the block die has?
Six. One Attacker Down, one Both Down, two Pushbacks, one Defender Stumbles, one Defender Down.

-What's your opinion about assassins?
They're pretty neat, but niche. I think a lot of people get over focused on stabbing with them, though. They're pretty optional, if you want to avoid the hassle of using them.

-What's my "level of play"(I ask it from those I've already played with)?
I haven't played you, but you have a winning record despite not knowing the sides of a block die, so I'd imagine you're doing alright.

-How can you level up a goblin fanatic?
They can get SPPs from mauling people with their mace, just like anyone else who throws a block. They can also get MVP.

[SpottedWobbegong]

I asked its viability.

[Kanil]

Dark Elves are elves, and elves are good. They don't quite have the starting skills of an amazon/dwarf/norse team, but they do have six block or dodge players. If you can quickly get all those players to level two to round out their block/dodge combo, then you'll probably be fine. You'll still be underdeveloped, but not hopelessly so.

They're definitely a good choice for starting a new team in an existing league.

[Aslandus]

I will say that entering the main league as it is would be hard, I took a fresh undead team in and have lost almost every game. That said, I'm no pro player and I don't know how well undead does diving into an existing league.

Just keep in mind that the people who are in the main league are decent players (at least) AND have developed teams, so unless someone's playing a joke team in the main league next season that you can get an easy level or two off of, you may want to wait until you have a team that's fattened up a little off the training league to enter with...

As for your player level, you're pretty good, know when to take risks and how to work around tackle zones for the most part, and luck seems to be on your side a decent amount which is useful, but I wouldn't dive into the uphill battle of the main league until you've at least figured out what your favorite playstyle is... You'll definitely be a force to be reckoned with once you have a team with a few levels of power to fight with, but for now at least two of the ML teams have less than five players that aren't leveled up and charging in is not for the faint of heart...

[i2amroy]

To me elf teams are one of those ones where you might want to wait and see what the league looks like next season before you just jump in with them. I mean if it's another fairly elfy team-base than you could probably just jump in fine. On the other hand if we have a season like some of the previous ones, where the elfiest team in the whole league is a human one, complete with both dwarf teams, a khemri team, and various other bashy madness you might want to consider if you still want to run an elf team in a league like that. I mean sure you might win your first game or two, but going into a game three with 9 loners due to deaths and injuries is not often a good way to win a game.

[monk12]

I probably wouldn't take a raw team into main league and expect great success. As Kanil said, Dark Elves are elves, and elves are good enough to win even with significant TV mismatches; they're certainly better than Goblins. That said, the last Dark Elf team I played with on Bay12 was in the Training League and it barely snuck into the playoffs. I don't think it would have done any better thrust directly into main, particularly if the Dwarf, Chaos Dwarf, Nurgle, and Undead teams all graduate from TT this season.

(I've never played Undead, but I have played Necro, and I was quite unsuccessful at low TV. Maybe just because that's not my playstyle, but even as opponents I do feel they are much more difficult to play against at high TV than low.)


Whether assassins are viable, my personal experience says they are interesting and they can pose a unique threat (particularly to lower armor teams) but it's hard to justify their spot on the team when I definitely want 4 Blitzers, 2 Runners, and 2 Witch Elves on the pitch every drive I can manage. 3 linos for the line of scrimmage brings us to 11, which is all that fits on the pitch. If you can find a role for them- perhaps using them as a Catcher on offense and sitting a Witch Elf (which is what I tried,) or sitting a Runner on defense and using them as a man-marker or passive threat (and giving up the inherent MA advantage of the Runner) then give them a go.

[THE_SLAYA]

-I'd say starting a dark elf team in the main league is kinda risky for most of the aforementioned reasons. However, while they are still elves, they tend to have a slightly bashier play style than the other elf teams and are slightly slower.
-As far as assassins go, I played a DE team when I was playing in a RMBBL league and started with two of them. That was a mistake mostly due to the fact that all of my opponents were high armor bashy teams. They can be extremely useful against teams that are hard to knock down but have low armor (i.e. Norse, amazon, other elves with blodge, etc) because they don't have to worry about actually rolling well.
-Based on our last match, your play is pretty decent. This could be in part due to your lucky streaks though as you seem to have a high risk high reward play style. I found this pretty evident in our match as you tried numerous dodges (as khemri no less). While these risks can make the game difficult for the opponent, I find its easier to wear teams down when you're playing as a bashy team like the khemri. Rather than trying to dodge through the enemy team to completely halt their progess, slowing them down while removing their players from the pitch or waiting for them to make a mistake/get caught out by a bad roll can be much more effective. In other words, patience is needed, especially when playing slow bashy teams.
-speaking of goblins getting SPP, the hard one to level is the looney as his chainsaw does not give SPP so he's much harder to level as the only means of gaining SPP are MVP and TD's, the latter of which is dang near impossible to complete. bombardiers and DE assassins can also be hard to level for the same reason.

[Sinistar]

As a goblin player, albeit not a really good one, I also find fanatic to be hard to level. No hands means no ball play whatsoever, not to mention his ball&chain with it's 3MA random movement is a wild-card at best. Opponent would easily just stay clear of him if possible. Of course, when he DOES hit... my fanatic currently sits at 5/6 SPP. How and why, only dice know.

Speaking off my gobbos, a level 3 green bastard emerges! With a sure feet and sprint, his 1TTD capabilities are a thing to sow a sure dread amongst his future opponents!... Until he keels over, of course. With luck I sometimes have with this guys I wouldn't be surprised if he just triped over and broke his neck one of this days when he attempts another GFI. Did I tell you that time when I played against Amazons and at one point had 5 injured, 1 dead and probably 4 knocked out gobbos? And then one single uninjured troll went stupid twice in a row, 15th and 16th turn, robbing me a chance to even try a 1TTD? Or that time I played against Skaven and I've managed to score 2 times... on my very first and very last turn. With an absolutely perfect, no-reroll-needed 1TTD. Pffff, goblins. I hate them so freakin much. I love them so freakin much.