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[dirty foot]

I find it funny how people complain when dwarf fortress gets more realistic (i.e. bolts piercing armor in adv) and don't complain when things get less realistic.

I LOVE realistic anatomy and physics in games.

It's a situation like now where we get a strange amalgamation of both in the same category of the game (physics). We have deadly bolts (realistic), but time fast-forwards when reloading (definitely not realistic).

[TheLinguist]

Also, a number of the 'Soul' attributes are no longer dump stats. IIRC, the ones that are still irrelevant are Musicality, Linguistic Ability, and Patience, though I may be wrong on that.

I habitually dump my empathy to low or very low. Adventurers are all sociopaths, afterall.

Unless you want to die from acute chivalry, i.e., saving your companions from that dragon instead of using that time to run.

Right, of course that's why I fought the dragon... not at all because I wanted the kill for myself. Riiight >_>.

[nate101]

I find it funny how people complain when dwarf fortress gets more realistic (i.e. bolts piercing armor in adv) and don't complain when things get less realistic.

That happens a lot in games today. If something is more realistic, then it is (most of the time) harder. If something is unrealistic, then it is (most of the time) easier. Look at a game like Call of Duty (sorry if I'm bringing up a forum taboo, I'm new here), it is rather unrealistic and yet hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people flock to its annual releases. Gamers nowadays don't seem to enjoy a challenge.

[nenjin]

There's a difference between challenging people, and one-shotting them. When a bone chip in the shoulder drops me unconscious (at average and above average stats) for a couple dozen rounds, that's not challenging. That's just kind of annoying, especially when it's repeatable and frequent. Considering you can have both arms and legs hacked off, and still have the presence of mind to bite your attackers in the feet, there's a disconnect between arrow lethality and virtually all other lethality.

[dirty foot]

I find it funny how people complain when dwarf fortress gets more realistic (i.e. bolts piercing armor in adv) and don't complain when things get less realistic.

That happens a lot in games today. If something is more realistic, then it is (most of the time) harder. If something is unrealistic, then it is (most of the time) easier. Look at a game like Call of Duty (sorry if I'm bringing up a forum taboo, I'm new here), it is rather unrealistic and yet hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people flock to its annual releases. Gamers nowadays don't seem to enjoy a challenge.

God, I started to really hate that game series.

There is literally NO strategy in a military game where a person can spawn up right behind you in a territory that you've secured.

[Montague]

Yeah, the whole a chipped-bone-causes-unfathomable-pain thing isn't realistic. You can change it in the raws, bring the pain receptor entry on bones down to 25 or whatever, though.

I like games to be abstracted somewhat, as attempting to make some aspect of a game highly realistic, makes it even less realistic for me, somehow, sort of breaks the suspension of disbelief when I'm made to think it's just like reality, then something happens that is decidedly non-realistic, it messes up the whole experience for me.

I think the combat system is trying to be too realistic, which I think makes it difficult to balance it. I sort of miss the 40d combat system because it was abstracted but it ended up being more straightforward, entertaining and realistic, even.

[Sunday]

Yeah, the whole a chipped-bone-causes-unfathomable-pain thing isn't realistic. You can change it in the raws, bring the pain receptor entry on bones down to 25 or whatever, though.

I like games to be abstracted somewhat, as attempting to make some aspect of a game highly realistic, makes it even less realistic for me, somehow, sort of breaks the suspension of disbelief when I'm made to think it's just like reality, then something happens that is decidedly non-realistic, it messes up the whole experience for me.

I think the combat system is trying to be too realistic, which I think makes it difficult to balance it. I sort of miss the 40d combat system because it was abstracted but it ended up being more straightforward, entertaining and realistic, even.

I much prefer the current system to 40d.

I found 40d extremely unrealistic and way too easy—like 1 legendary axedwarf taking out ten sieges in a row by himself. Or an adventurer killing off everything in the world without a significant challenge. Or a hammerdwarf hitting a goblin so hard it flies 40 tiles before hitting a tree and exploding. Way too easy, and none of those were at all realistic.

I actually really like having tissue layers—it makes it much harder to kill anything individually, but IMO it should be hard to kill things instantly. If you stab someone in the abdomen, they shouldn't die immediately—IRL it might take hours, depending on the size of the stab and where it hits.

[Montague]

Well, when I said realistic, I was thinking about how lethal wolves and biting animals were and how unarmed dwarves could actually kill things.

Now, wolves just sort of try to gum you to death and unarmed strikes do nothing unless the skull is punched through the brain.

[dirty foot]

Well, when I said realistic, I was thinking about how lethal wolves and biting animals were and how unarmed dwarves could actually kill things.

Now, wolves just sort of try to gum you to death and unarmed strikes do nothing unless the skull is punched through the brain.

This and blunt weapons seem to suffer from a severe lack of ability.

[Moddan]

I don't think ranged penetration is realistic at the moment. Currently a metal arrow/bolt even pierces an iron maille/plate combo at ease and then even has enough punch to damage the spine, usually ending an adventure. I think in reality one would need an arbalest for that. Maybe making wooden/bone ammunition the standard for bandits and metal the exception would give more glances to the well armored adventurer.

[nenjin]

People have also been asking for blunt damage to be revisited since the last major update to combat damage. The supposed benefit of it, shattering bones through armor and such, really doesn't seem to stack up against the value of piercing, nerve damage, organ destruction and severing. At least, not until you pile excessive amounts of strength on top of it.

I kinda think pain is underused to. It only seems like you are in pain when something seriously bad happens. Bruises and concussions never seem to cause pain, and when you do start to experience pain...you're usually missing a limb, motor sensory nerves or something else that is ultimately going to screw long before pain has an effect.

That is, of course, excluding arrows, which bring all the pain and some extra on the first hit.

[dirty foot]

I don't think ranged penetration is realistic at the moment. Currently a metal arrow/bolt even pierces an iron maille/plate combo at ease and then even has enough punch to damage the spine, usually ending an adventure. I think in reality one would need an arbalest for that. Maybe making wooden/bone ammunition the standard for bandits and metal the exception would give more glances to the well armored adventurer.

My brothers and I found a crossbow in my grandparents' attic. I can say, from first hand knowledge, that a pencil shot out of one WILL piece some metals.

A pencil.

[Kilroy the Grand]

I don't think ranged penetration is realistic at the moment. Currently a metal arrow/bolt even pierces an iron maille/plate combo at ease and then even has enough punch to damage the spine, usually ending an adventure. I think in reality one would need an arbalest for that. Maybe making wooden/bone ammunition the standard for bandits and metal the exception would give more glances to the well armored adventurer.

Well, they are supposed to do that. A pope tried to ban crossbows because he thought it made war "unfair" or some such nonsense.

[nenjin]

Meh. English knights said the same thing to longbow men at Agincourt

[bombzero]

I don't think ranged penetration is realistic at the moment. Currently a metal arrow/bolt even pierces an iron maille/plate combo at ease and then even has enough punch to damage the spine, usually ending an adventure. I think in reality one would need an arbalest for that. Maybe making wooden/bone ammunition the standard for bandits and metal the exception would give more glances to the well armored adventurer.

My brothers and I found a crossbow in my grandparents' attic. I can say, from first hand knowledge, that a pencil shot out of one WILL piece some metals.

A pencil.

many people have little perception of just how brutal crossbows are now, and were back then.

expecially since most crossbows back then had the arms made of weaker metal than what we see in DF. a solid steel crossbow firing steel bolts would probably rip through thick steel armor like butter.