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Author Topic: Project Animal Man (PAM)  (Read 4798 times)

thatkid

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Project Animal Man (PAM)
« on: February 20, 2012, 12:20:49 pm »
Greetings, everybody.

It has come to my attention, and I'm certain it has come to yours as well, that the recent abundance of animal men is...shall we say...annoying? I, for one, welcome our new Animal Man overlords- but I also long for the days when my adventurers could wander an open field and run into a pack of wolves or a flock of turkey, instead of a phalanx of Barn Owl Men and Barn Owl Women.
However, just recently I was reminded of something. Something which, I think, might make these animal men rather interesting.

You see, we have a civilization for SOME animal men. They live in the caves. The entity entry for this animal men civilization has multiple races listed, but it only chooses from one of them for each civilization. Effectively, this means that, of the animal man species listed in the entry, only some of them may actually show up.
Since we cannot consume animal men in adventure mode, I am lead to believe that they are universally [INTELLIGENT]. What this means for us, as modders, is that we can place them into civilizations.

My suggestion is thus:
1. We catalogue the animal man species with which we have been cursed.
2. We divide them into groups around a common theme. (A serpentman group, for instance, or an Insectman group)
3. We place each of these groups into a civ. Each civ is different, to provide some variety.
4. ???
5. Less animal men per world in general.

Thoughts?
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2012, 01:01:03 pm »
I simply went through and removed them (most of them)

But I like your idea, but question is... Would we just add [CREATURE:(animalman)] times X amount of times for these categorized civs? (entities?)

Or will we jam them into one creature and have each category of animal man/woman a caste? That way when we make a civ of "Bird People" there will be sparrow men, raven men, owl men, etc... all mixed in together. I've done this with my undead (4 major races jammed into one creature as castes) It can get a little crazy but the outcome is very nice as squads of bird people would be a mix of all types of bird people
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scion-of-fenrir

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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2012, 01:06:53 pm »
I like it! However, we may run into a problem - assuming these civs are on the surface, having too many may crowd out the "Regular" civs - admittedly, they wouldn't have very good weapons, but you could easily get unlucky and gen a world with, say, 30 Animal Civs and 10 Elf/Human/Dwarf/Goblin/Kobold civs. I suppose certain groups (Serpent Men, lots of Insect Men) could be added to the already-existing Cavern civ to alleviate this...

Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 20, 2012, 01:01:03 pm
I simply went through and removed them (most of them)

But I like your idea, but question is... Would we just add [CREATURE:(animalman)] times X amount of times for these categorized civs? (entities?)

Or will we jam them into one creature and have each category of animal man/woman a caste? That way when we make a civ of "Bird People" there will be sparrow men, raven men, owl men, etc... all mixed in together. I've done this with my undead (4 major races jammed into one creature as castes) It can get a little crazy but the outcome is very nice as squads of bird people would be a mix of all types of bird people

I like this a lot as well, and it would provide plenty of diversity!
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 01:14:00 pm »
If anyone likes I can post the raws for my Zombies just to show how I managed to jam the 4 major races in together (Note As I've noticed most of the Animial People use [COPY_TAGS_FROM] and [CREATURE_VARIATION] stuff, stuff I have no knowledge in)
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scion-of-fenrir

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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2012, 01:31:59 pm »
Took the initiative, and am attempting to categorize all the Animal People. We have our work cut out for us. Will add more as often as I can:

ANIMAL MAN ENTITIES

Spoiler: Bird Folk (click to show/hide)

EDIT: Added the rest. Still not sure how to classify the damn platypus...

Spoiler: Beast Folk (click to show/hide)

Is REALLY long - maybe it should be further split? Then again, the bird group is about this long.

Spoiler: Monkey Folk (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Rodent Folk (click to show/hide)

I know Otters, Stoats, and Minks aren't really Rodents, but they look similar enough that I put them in.

Spoiler: Reptile Folk (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Insect Folk (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Arachnid Folk (click to show/hide)

Maybe Arachnid and Insect should be combined? Not really "realistic," but the Arachnid list is so short, it might as well be.

Spoiler: Amphibian Folk (click to show/hide)

Possibly combine with Fish Folk, maybe rename "Deep Folk" or something.

Spoiler: Fish Folk (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Serpent Folk (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 20, 2012, 01:14:00 pm
If anyone likes I can post the raws for my Zombies just to show how I managed to jam the 4 major races in together (Note As I've noticed most of the Animial People use [COPY_TAGS_FROM] and [CREATURE_VARIATION] stuff, stuff I have no knowledge in)

That'd be cool - I assume it would be a case of just using the [SELECT_CASTE:] tag, and copy/pasting the relevant bits, though I am sure I am wrong.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 02:03:24 pm by scion-of-fenrir »
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2012, 02:01:47 pm »
Quote from: scion-of-fenrir on February 20, 2012, 01:31:59 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 20, 2012, 01:14:00 pm
If anyone likes I can post the raws for my Zombies just to show how I managed to jam the 4 major races in together (Note As I've noticed most of the Animial People use [COPY_TAGS_FROM] and [CREATURE_VARIATION] stuff, stuff I have no knowledge in)

That'd be cool - I assume it would be a case of just using the [SELECT_CASTE:] tag, and copy/pasting the relevant bits, though I am sure I am wrong.
Yes it is, I shall post the ZOMBIE raws then

Spoiler: ZOMIBIES (click to show/hide)

Noticed I accidently left something in the zombies that allows night creatures to convert them, fixed that for my mod now :P But yes that is the basic layout of it, Now I would suggest if we go this route we make seperate creature files for each category (cause they will be HUGE!) of course bird people and other animal people should be easier (since they are just a category, only thing that might make them different is colors, descriptions, and venom attacks (depending on hat animal person))
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thatkid

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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2012, 02:12:57 pm »
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 20, 2012, 01:01:03 pm
I simply went through and removed them (most of them)

But I like your idea, but question is... Would we just add [CREATURE:(animalman)] times X amount of times for these categorized civs? (entities?)

Or will we jam them into one creature and have each category of animal man/woman a caste? That way when we make a civ of "Bird People" there will be sparrow men, raven men, owl men, etc... all mixed in together. I've done this with my undead (4 major races jammed into one creature as castes) It can get a little crazy but the outcome is very nice as squads of bird people would be a mix of all types of bird people
This mod should be light weight and function only as an entity file.
So I was not talking about making massive creature files with 40 different castes, breaking compatibility with a bunch of other mods, and then requiring users to go through all of their raws removing the other animal men just so the new animal men castes would work, no.

Quote from: scion-of-fenrir on February 20, 2012, 01:31:59 pm
Took the initiative, and am attempting to categorize all the Animal People. We have our work cut out for us. Will add more as often as I can:

...SNIP...
That's pretty awesome!
I think we can probably cut the Bird Folk and Beast Folk down some more. (Maybe into something like "Felines," "Cave Birds," etc?)
I agree that Insects and Arachnids can be combined- I mean, it's not like we're trying to be scientifically accurate or anything. The same goes for Amphibian/Fish.

Ideally, we should try to fit as many animal folk into cave-civs as possible, so that we don't end up with the aforementioned Yiff Fortress.
There's apparently some change that's been made to the way the Kobold's site works, and so it might be worth looking at that too. Maybe it's an above ground cave tag now? I'm guessing it probably isn't, but it's worth a try!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 02:16:41 pm by thatkid »
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scion-of-fenrir

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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2012, 02:41:56 pm »
Quote from: thatkid on February 20, 2012, 02:12:57 pm
This mod should be light weight and function only as an entity file.
So I was not talking about making massive creature files with 40 different castes, breaking compatibility with a bunch of other mods, and then requiring users to go through all of their raws removing the other animal men just so the new animal men castes would work, no.

Quote from: scion-of-fenrir on February 20, 2012, 01:31:59 pm
Took the initiative, and am attempting to categorize all the Animal People. We have our work cut out for us. Will add more as often as I can:

...SNIP...
That's pretty awesome!
I think we can probably cut the Bird Folk and Beast Folk down some more. (Maybe into something like "Felines," "Cave Birds," etc?)
I agree that Insects and Arachnids can be combined- I mean, it's not like we're trying to be scientifically accurate or anything. The same goes for Amphibian/Fish.

Ideally, we should try to fit as many animal folk into cave-civs as possible, so that we don't end up with the aforementioned Yiff Fortress.
There's apparently some change that's been made to the way the Kobold's site works, and so it might be worth looking at that too. Maybe it's an above ground cave tag now? I'm guessing it probably isn't, but it's worth a try!

Fair enough - here is a (revised) version of my first post. It shortens the number of new Civs to 7, and shifted a few into the caverns (namely Slug and Snail People).

BEASTFOLK: Comprised of "Predatory" Mammals and Monkeys.
Spoiler: Beastfolk Entity (click to show/hide)

ANIMALFOLK: Comprised of "Peaceful" Mammals.
Spoiler: Animalfolk Entity (click to show/hide)

RODENTFOLK: Comprised of Rodents, and Rodent-Like Creatures.
Spoiler: Rodentfolk Entity (click to show/hide)

REPTILEFOLK: Comprised of non-snake reptiles.
Spoiler: Reptilefolk Entity (click to show/hide)

INSECTFOLK: Comprised of Insects, Annelids, and Arachnids.
Spoiler: Insectfolk Entity (click to show/hide)

DEEPFOLK: Comprised of Amphibians, Fish, Whales, and other Aquatic creatures.
Spoiler: Deepfolk Entity (click to show/hide)

SERPENTFOLK: Comprised of Snakes, snakes on a plane.
Spoiler: Serpentfolk Entity (click to show/hide)

CAVERN: Found only in the caverns.
Spoiler: Cavern Entity (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 02:44:46 pm by scion-of-fenrir »
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thatkid

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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2012, 08:23:47 pm »
Alright.

I'm going to tentatively suggest that...

Rodent Folk, Deep Folk, and Serpent Folk all get their own underground civ (maybe a copy of the one that's already there? Maybe the vanilla civ with some ethics changed so that they'll act differently? I mean, Rodents should be A-OK with cannibalism, imo)

I don't think the kobold site works as we'd want it to for this, so that means the others would need to be actual civs.
So Beast and Animal Folk both get regular cities. Insect Folk get Forest Retreats.
Not sure what to do with Serpent Folk...maybe dark fortresses?

Regardless, for those Folk that are in actual civs that have a chance of waging war and conquering, their ethics should be altered so that they...don't do that, I guess. I know it's doable, I'm just not entirely sure how.
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sackhead

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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2012, 08:24:57 pm »
you could possibly make the entitiies depend on enviroments apossed to relationship.
for example put all the polar animals togeather i.e a narwhale would be in the polar group no the fish group
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Reelya

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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2012, 10:12:30 pm »
Don't forget the Tigerman in creature_savage_tropical.txt

Really, though Toady should retire amphibian, rodent, serpent and reptileman etc if he's going to add specific rodent and serpent people etc.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 11:35:03 am by Reelya »
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2012, 10:22:05 pm »
Quote from: Reelya on February 20, 2012, 10:12:30 pm
Don't forget the Tigerman in creature_savage_tropical.txt

Really, though Toady should retire amphibian, rodent, serpent and reptileman etc if he's going to add specific rodent and serpent people etc.
I think he just went overboard with ""Animal People"" I didn't mind a few, but one for everytype of animal? I could understand a "Birdman" but a "bushtitman" and "sparrowman" unless his name is captain jack sparrow I don't want him.
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Shadowscales

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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2012, 11:50:15 pm »
Animalmen are AWESOME though...
More just needs to be done with them, I also want to be able to communicate with hostile civs rather than VILLAGERS charging at me when I play as a lizardman in Genesis...

For me, in adventure mode biodiversity is awesome.
I REALLY hate it that communication with sentient enemies is impossible, I would like to be able to bribe people and such AT LEAST!
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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2012, 03:50:33 pm »
you migth also consider to add a supplementer entity like that (not complet havent looked for all  ~~_MAN) :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
that way you will have all of them always acces to them as an outsider adventurer (tested) ... kinda fun and don't need to worry that one of them do not shows up as civ ... 
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Re: Project Animal Man (PAM)
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2012, 04:58:24 pm »
Would we be able to play these Animal Men in adventure mode?
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