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[knutor]

I'm not upset about animal men, I am worried.  I have a bunch of snail men and some other kinds of animal men, dying over there on my current map, at a falls, to one sponge.  That sponge has gotta be getting HUGE, with all these easy kills.  Its right below a falls.  There are two other sponges on the map too, for a total of three.  I've toll painted them all off.  But the animal men, haven't...  What will happen if this sponge becomes legendary in block?  I won't have much choice in how to fight it, it will become unkillable if I can't plink it with bolts.  Sincerely, Knutor

[Watsst]

Giant sponges are the best, they take care of all the undead that attack my fortress. And I thought animals didnt gain skills?

[squishynoob]

Does the game even have a way for weighing the number of creatures, right now?

[Neonivek]

Does the game even have a way for weighing the number of creatures, right now?

One, it has a frequency rating.

[squishynoob]

So it could be just a matter of tweaking it?

(aside from the chance for civilization idea, which is good)

[Neonivek]

So it could be just a matter of tweaking it?

(aside from the chance for civilization idea, which is good)

It needs a few more changes in my mind.

Animals and sapient creatures should act differently.

[dizzyelk]

Animals and sapient creatures should act differently.

That they should. It'd be cool if the animalmen were like nomadic tribes or something. They could show up, set up tents and hunt in your area for a season or so, then move on. If they get attacked by your dwarves they could then send ambushes. Maybe, once the economy fixes are in they could even sell stuff to your dwarves and buy stuff from your shops.

[Neonivek]

Animals and sapient creatures should act differently.

That they should. It'd be cool if the animalmen were like nomadic tribes or something. They could show up, set up tents and hunt in your area for a season or so, then move on. If they get attacked by your dwarves they could then send ambushes. Maybe, once the economy fixes are in they could even sell stuff to your dwarves and buy stuff from your shops.

Actually I really like the idea. They arn't against you, they are just territorial. If you leave them alone they will leave on their own.

[WillowLuman]

I also think that there are too many kinds of animal men. Maybe blend some of them together? Some very similar subspecies have men versions of each of them.

[Neonivek]

I also think that there are too many kinds of animal men. Maybe blend some of them together? Some very similar subspecies have men versions of each of them.

Some also need better descriptions. I don't know what a Kea is!

[xeniorn]

I also think that there are too many kinds of animal men. Maybe blend some of them together? Some very similar subspecies have men versions of each of them.

Some also need better descriptions. I don't know what a Kea is!

I'm with you on that. Had to google that very one.

Also, on the topic of many kinds of animal men - it seems to me that also could have been done differently. As it is now, animal men are literally humanoid versions of specific animal species - something that's usually attributed to were-creatures. Animal people in my opinion should have more generic species name associated with them. If you try to imagine how dwarves even gave names to all those species it doesn't make much sense if the names are so specific. A dwarf may be able to differentiate two birds of pray, but if you twist those two birds into a humanoid form, I find it hard to imagine it would be easy to say which one came from a falcon and which one came from a hawk. The current naming system seems to be more from a godlike perspective or genomic perspective if you prefer, instead of a dwarf's one.

Even if Toady is inclined to keep the humanoid system the way it is, I would definitely prefer it so that not all the animal men appear in all the worlds. Biodiversity at the "regular animal" level should definitely surpass the biodiversity of manlike and gigantic animals, as should be the case with their numbers.

[Belteshazzar]

I would suggest either the use of more 'generic' -mans  (fishman, birdman, rodentman, ect) or perhaps the use of some random generation/modification using the animal raws to create either individuals (a singular horde of variegated and diverse beastmen a la Warhammer) or tribes of only a few kinds of specific animal men.

[Neonivek]

I would suggest either the use of more 'generic' -mans  (fishman, birdman, rodentman, ect) or perhaps the use of some random generation/modification using the animal raws to create either individuals (a singular horde of variegated and diverse beastmen a la Warhammer) or tribes of only a few kinds of specific animal men.

Wouldn't be too terrible if Animalmen were treated as a single entity. Though that could be too trippy for most people.

[catoblepas]

I would suggest either the use of more 'generic' -mans  (fishman, birdman, rodentman, ect) or perhaps the use of some random generation/modification using the animal raws to create either individuals (a singular horde of variegated and diverse beastmen a la Warhammer) or tribes of only a few kinds of specific animal men.

That would be interesting. Reminds me of the Trollocs from Wheel of Time and the Beastmen from Warhammer, which is a good thing. Right now animal men are just a less interesting form of werecreature.

[Watsst]

I would suggest either the use of more 'generic' -mans  (fishman, birdman, rodentman, ect) or perhaps the use of some random generation/modification using the animal raws to create either individuals (a singular horde of variegated and diverse beastmen a la Warhammer) or tribes of only a few kinds of specific animal men.

Yeah I like the random gen idea. If it named by tribe and then you could examine it and find "It has horns, feline features and a long mane" or something similar to how you can see what dwarves look like. Also think it would be interesting if they were kind of chimera like, mixtures of animals. I guess you could say that's what forgotten beasts are cause they blend features (limbs, creatures types, abilities), but a tribe of half-snake bull people would pretty interesting, fight wise or even if they just walked past.

A lot of the animal men are mythological creatures in there own right. Not sure if all of these spawn but Bullmen, Horsemen, Birdmen or Snakemen are minotaurs, centaurs, harpys and nagas, which would show that the system needs some work. Also not sure why centaurs arent in the game, and are described as creatures of myth (you can get them in engravings in early versions, probably still now, but never appeared actually appeared, and werent planned), they could at least form tribes.