Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24 25

Author Topic: Good regions being painfully good  (Read 88534 times)

Babylon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #330 on: September 23, 2013, 02:51:52 pm »

I really don't understand. Good regions are supposed to be...Good. Easier. It doesn't make sense to make a good region more dangerous than a neutral region. Then it wouldn't be good.
Instead of suggesting a revamp of the Good Regions and how they are easier...Try an Evil Region.

Common misconception.  As is good regions are slightly more difficult than neutral regions, cause of unicorns.  The suggestion here is that they be made more interesting.  They shouldn't be as hellish as an evil region, but having them offer their own sort of challenge would make the game more interesting.
Logged

Solarius Scorch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Intergalactic Radio Station
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #331 on: October 08, 2013, 06:00:37 pm »

I admit I haven't read the entirety of the thread, but how about making Good regions problematic for psychological reasons?

What would a "good region" be (in general, not specifically DF)? Well, a region with strong influence of powers with Good alignment. So, how about simply making such regions cause the inhabitants to be less tolerant toward evil and violence, and having bad thoughts when such things occur?
  • Hunting and killing animals may cause a minor bad thought, possibly greater for Good creatures like unicorns.
  • Witnessing violence may cause more bad thoughts than normal.
  • Killing invaders may cause bad thoughts too.
  • The hammerer has insomnia, as his job is giving him a moral dilemma.
  • Eating meat and wearing leather becomes uncomfortable to some citizens, as they are produced through suffering.
  • And so on.
These effects would be fairly minor, so that the game doesn't differ too much from the norm, but still they'd accumulate over time. I envision a 10 year fortress to be more "converted" than a new one. This will cause fortresses to become progressively less violent over the years (with an appropriate cultural impact, when cultures are properly introduced) and therefore less efficient in certain areas, such as military. On the other hand, we can expect less tantrums, but it still should be more of an inconvenience than a boon.
Logged
Dwarf Fortress: Strike the earth for all it's worth!

Tacyn

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #332 on: October 09, 2013, 04:20:45 am »

I admit I haven't read the entirety of the thread, but how about making Good regions problematic for psychological reasons?

What would a "good region" be (in general, not specifically DF)? Well, a region with strong influence of powers with Good alignment. So, how about simply making such regions cause the inhabitants to be less tolerant toward evil and violence, and having bad thoughts when such things occur?
  • Hunting and killing animals may cause a minor bad thought, possibly greater for Good creatures like unicorns.
  • Witnessing violence may cause more bad thoughts than normal.
  • Killing invaders may cause bad thoughts too.
  • The hammerer has insomnia, as his job is giving him a moral dilemma.
  • Eating meat and wearing leather becomes uncomfortable to some citizens, as they are produced through suffering.
  • And so on.
These effects would be fairly minor, so that the game doesn't differ too much from the norm, but still they'd accumulate over time. I envision a 10 year fortress to be more "converted" than a new one. This will cause fortresses to become progressively less violent over the years (with an appropriate cultural impact, when cultures are properly introduced) and therefore less efficient in certain areas, such as military. On the other hand, we can expect less tantrums, but it still should be more of an inconvenience than a boon.

So in essence, your dwarfs turn into elves?
Logged

Solarius Scorch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Intergalactic Radio Station
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #333 on: October 09, 2013, 06:14:56 am »

So in essence, your dwarfs turn into elves?

Not at all. Elves are hardly good; in the simple DnD terminology, I'd call them Lawful Neutral in the extreme (fanatics). Their values are determined by culture and possibly physiology, not moral influence from supernatural forces.
Dwarves would retain their own culture, at least for some time, but would probably gradually shy away from the actions that make them feel uncomfortable due to unanticipated feelings of guilt.
Logged
Dwarf Fortress: Strike the earth for all it's worth!

WillowLuman

  • Bay Watcher
  • They/Them Life is weird
    • View Profile
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #334 on: October 09, 2013, 05:27:32 pm »

I mean, it's not like striking stone and melting ore would make them feel guilty.
Logged
Dwarf Souls: Prepare to Mine
Keep Me Safe - A Girl and Her Computer (Illustrated Game)
Darkest Garden - Illustrated game. - What mysteries lie in the abandoned dark?

Lord_lemonpie

  • Bay Watcher
  • disco-froggin' since 2013
    • View Profile
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #335 on: October 12, 2013, 04:43:18 pm »

How about good mist that releases creatures from chains/cages?
Logged

dashadowlord

  • Bay Watcher
  • this games out to get me
    • View Profile
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #336 on: October 12, 2013, 09:36:17 pm »

How about good mist that releases creatures from chains/cages?

hmmm why is there 2 dragons a roc and a goblen army loose in my fortress, could be interresting
Logged
If life were like DF, Toady's strange mood would have produced an Artifact Game of Awesome that menaces with spikes of code ten years ago.  
But it is not.
Instead, what we have is a single obsessive mason trying to carve Mt. Rushmore.

Solarius Scorch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Intergalactic Radio Station
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #337 on: October 12, 2013, 10:50:54 pm »

How about good mist that releases creatures from chains/cages?

I'm not sure if it'd be good, but surely a surprise. XD
Logged
Dwarf Fortress: Strike the earth for all it's worth!

darkrider2

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #338 on: October 13, 2013, 09:44:47 am »

How about: Wildlife Siege (good regions only)

If your fortress butchers too many animals, or cuts down too many trees, or gathers too many plants (designation plant gathering, farming is fine), then a horde of wild creatures will arrive to besiege your fortress and put an end to your atrocities against nature.

Hell this could even give elves context.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 09:47:37 am by darkrider2 »
Logged

Warron

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #339 on: October 13, 2013, 11:26:58 am »

I admit I haven't read the whole forum, but I have some ideas for this. I don't think good regions should be "like evil regions but different," with "good" mists replacing evil mists and  so on, but I think they should have some unique challenges of their own.

One idea is to have satyrs play music that could have various effects on the dwarves. For instance it could lull them to sleep, or cause them to interrupt their work to seek out the source of the music, or maybe throw them into a panic.

One common fantasy trope is faerie food that is so delicious people who eat it become obsessed with it, like the fruit in "Goblin Market." Perhaps good regions could contain fruit so delicious that dwarves who eat it start having unhappy thoughts whenever they eat anything else. Perhaps elven caravans could even trade this fruit to unwitting players who don't know the danger.

Someone suggested a good mist that de-ages your dwarves. That's an interesting idea, but why make it a mist? Perhaps it could be a magic spring or an extract from a certain plant. (I think it should be exceptionally rare, by the way) If it could be collected it would make for a valuable trade good, but you would still have to worry about dwarves drinking from it, whether unwittingly or because they really do want to be young again.
Logged

Warron

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #340 on: October 13, 2013, 11:33:03 am »

On another note, a lot of the suggestions suggest good regions creating a sort of "Disneycation" where your dwarves become too peaceful and lovey-dovey to be useful for anything. That's an idea, but I have in mind something a little more like an old fairy tale or a Charles DeLint novel, where the faerie folk are wondrous and beautiful but also can be really dangerous to people who don't know what they're dealing with. Perhaps that's not really "good" in the proper sense, but I think it's more interesting than the Disneyfication idea.
Logged

WillowLuman

  • Bay Watcher
  • They/Them Life is weird
    • View Profile
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #341 on: October 13, 2013, 02:29:00 pm »

Also, perhaps good regions could be wholly beneficient, but taking their benefits for granted and abusing them causes them to disappear. So, to keep the benefits, players would have to maintain responsible use of the region's goodness. I.E, a magical sustainability challenge

Think of it like some kind of generous person. They'll give to anyone freely, without limits or resentment, but if someone gets greedy and takes beyond their measure to provide, the giver becomes impoverished and unable to help anyone else.
Logged
Dwarf Souls: Prepare to Mine
Keep Me Safe - A Girl and Her Computer (Illustrated Game)
Darkest Garden - Illustrated game. - What mysteries lie in the abandoned dark?

dashadowlord

  • Bay Watcher
  • this games out to get me
    • View Profile
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #342 on: October 14, 2013, 01:14:53 am »

How about: Wildlife Siege (good regions only)

You find an ancient book amongst the belongings of a dead elf

~Ancient book - written in human~

At first our people were no different than humans, we took from the land to build temples honoring the gods and great walls for protection. Great tales were told of adventures to faraway lands, where sun berries grew, and feathers coated the earth, and all manner of food and tree were plentiful. The kings sent many an expedition to colonize these places, and here our people prospered, it seemed that all around, there was no end to the bounty of the land.

Then they came.

A tide of fur consumed our towns, our temples were destroyed, our walls could not keep out the winged assailants, our dogs turned on us, and the sewers ran red with blood. Though they did not speak any human tongue, their demands were clear, submit to the will of nature, or die.

For thousands of years, my people lived in fear, under the rule of the animal kings. No longer would we know the protections of four walls and a roof, or the warmth of a fireplace, for tree cutting was forbidden. No longer could we document our history, for writing with the ink of an octopus and the feather of a bird was punishable by death. Though many secretly held strong the beliefs of the old gods, we could no longer construct temples in their honor, instead, we were forced to create crude and simple temples, to honor the titans which ruled over us.

In the trees we now lived and depended, we grew short, thin, and agile to survive, our ears became more perceptive, and grew to points. Our language changed drastically, many of the hard consonants used by humans faded from use, as our people chose to speak softly and quietly to avoid being overheard by our rulers.

- Here the writing changes to elf -

As it no longer seemed apparent that elves and humans could be related, trade was allowed, but only under the watchful eye of our masters, do not be fooled, those "pack animals" may carry our goods, but their eyes watch our merchants and report to our masters, even in faraway lands, we can never be free.

How do I know all this you may ask, among the oldest of the human cities, I was sought out by a man who would not speak his name, and he gave me this book, I have hidden it among my possessions and write in it when the mules are grazing. He would only tell me that this was a documented history of my people, passed down and copied many times through many generations, and that all elves must read it and rise again to truly be free. Though this book has taught me much, our rulers have many spies among the elves, the druids are but puppets, I cannot trust it to anyone.

I am Ririli EarthOrders, elf merchant. Our caravan has visited many towns and mountain halls, and in each we have pleaded that the inhabitants to cease cutting down the forests which surround them, only to be scoffed at and ignored, little do they know, and I cannot tell them, for when I speak too loosely I can feel the breath of a Donkey at my back, ever-present, waiting for me to make one mistake.

It is in the mountainhomes where I see what you might call 'freedom', the dwarves submit to no gods, purge the members of their society which believe themselves as rulers, reap the lands with no concern for anything but the booze in their barrels and the steel in their forges. They seize our goods, and I sense the mules at my back, I can only utter the words "take what you want, there's nothing I can do", the feeling of submission is never far from the elven heart.

I cannot live like this any longer.

Upon reaching the nearest forest retreat, I will tell the elves of the 'atrocities' committed by the dwarves against nature, against our rulers. I myself will lead a war party against the dwarven halls, which I have seen first hand, the walls there are insurmountable, their defenses impenetrable, even the armies of the goblins would fail against the mechanations of the dwarves. My brethren do not know this, but I know one thing, I would rather die under bolt and hammer, than horn and hoof.
[/spoiler]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

wow darkrider2 this is an epic idea i soo want this in the game. it also gives a reason why humans don't settle in good regions.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 02:06:19 am by dashadowlord »
Logged
If life were like DF, Toady's strange mood would have produced an Artifact Game of Awesome that menaces with spikes of code ten years ago.  
But it is not.
Instead, what we have is a single obsessive mason trying to carve Mt. Rushmore.

TurtleMadness

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #343 on: December 10, 2013, 06:31:09 pm »

I feel like if anything, the good biomes should benefit your dwarves by boosting their mood. Or if you're dead set on this negative thing, then maybe have your 'clouds' turn them into hippies, like elves, so they won't like the lumber, hunting, or fishing industry. I think anything more than that would make 'good' biomes indistinguishable from evil biomes.
Logged

fractalman

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Good regions being painfully good
« Reply #344 on: January 15, 2014, 02:58:48 am »

[snip] sieged by [snip] Na'vi [snip]
Brain Bleach. WHERE IS IT OH ARMOK THE HORROR!!!!!!!
Fractalman has canceled post: went insane.
Logged
This is a masterwork ledger.  It contains 3719356 pages on the topic of the precise number and location of stones in Spindlybrooks.  In the text, the dwarves are hauling.
"And here is where we get the undead unicorns. Stop looking at me that way, you should have seen the zombie deer running around last week!"
Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24 25