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[Murphy]

I really hate the pain system; you could be beating around an armless elf wrestler, he stomps on your foot, then your legendary axedwarf suddenly forgets how to hit things, and the elf (now apparently an amazing fighter) proceeds to kick the rest of your bones out

It is because bone tissue has [PAIN_RECEPTORS:50] while all other tissues have [PAIN_RECEPTORS:5].
Look in tissue_template_default.txt and you'll see.
I upped the 5s to 10s and downed the 50 to 25 and it's more realistic now - broken bones will not take you down as easily while flesh wounds will hurt more.

[Loud Whispers]

Is your willpower/endurance low? Also, I don't know about you, but have you ever broken a toe, even a finger? Hurts >:3

Willpower doesn't matter if you break a bone. You're going to pass out several times before that extreme pain goes away, willpower just delays it slighty.
And I imagine having your leg slowly hacked off with a serrated bronze axe would hurt a hell of a lot more than getting your finger smashed. Not according to DF, however.

...Getting your finger smashed would probably hurt more than getting your leg hacked off. More pain receptors.
Also 1-2 points in willpower + endurance pretty much make all of my adventurers immune to all pain, bar something on the scale of getting their head cut off.

[Isher]

I think the buff to ranged was much needed. Have you seen how many moves a melee person gets for just one arrow you fire? One ranged attack was equivalent to about 5 melee attacks. If they're even remotely close to you and you miss, you may as well start thinking of how you want to build your next adventurer.

I agree that it's hard to balance, and combat move/speed split is release 7 of the caravan arc which is too bad, but that's what you get when you bring a crossbow to a swordfight. I would much prefer manual reloads that you could interrupt.

But yesterday in a fight my companion was down and unconscious and an axeman stood over him hacking at his head with a copper GREAT AXE and his copper helm deflected it 5 times. A copper bolt brained him once, "through the rat weed hood." Every bolt fired seems to ignore metal armor.

[Loud Whispers]

>Arbalest
>Bolts have higher velocity, lower contact size, if you're getting shot you're pretty doomed

[EnigmaticHat]

I think the buff to ranged was much needed. Have you seen how many moves a melee person gets for just one arrow you fire? One ranged attack was equivalent to about 5 melee attacks. If they're even remotely close to you and you miss, you may as well start thinking of how you want to build your next adventurer.

I agree that it's hard to balance, and combat move/speed split is release 7 of the caravan arc which is too bad, but that's what you get when you bring a crossbow to a swordfight. I would much prefer manual reloads that you could interrupt.

But yesterday in a fight my companion was down and unconscious and an axeman stood over him hacking at his head with a copper GREAT AXE and his copper helm deflected it 5 times. A copper bolt brained him once, "through the rat weed hood." Every bolt fired seems to ignore metal armor.

Great axes are terrible.  In DF, bigger is worse for weapons, because the force of the blow is spread out over a larger contact area.  Or at least, I think that's what it is, all I know is that all my adventures with great axes have taken forever to kill things and my adventurers with battleaxes have been bisecting night creatures left and right.  Copper is a mediocre weapon metal too.

Totally agree with you about the manual reloads.

[dirty foot]

Is your willpower/endurance low? Also, I don't know about you, but have you ever broken a toe, even a finger? Hurts >:3

Willpower doesn't matter if you break a bone. You're going to pass out several times before that extreme pain goes away, willpower just delays it slighty.
And I imagine having your leg slowly hacked off with a serrated bronze axe would hurt a hell of a lot more than getting your finger smashed. Not according to DF, however.

...Getting your finger smashed would probably hurt more than getting your leg hacked off. More pain receptors.
Also 1-2 points in willpower + endurance pretty much make all of my adventurers immune to all pain, bar something on the scale of getting their head cut off.

I don't think pain is associated in the game with just pain. I think it's a placeholder for other things, like going into shock.

A lost limb is going to cause you to pass out more than a finger that was turned into pulp.

[Fidel Franco Fox]

Is your willpower/endurance low? Also, I don't know about you, but have you ever broken a toe, even a finger? Hurts >:3

Also archer is the skill which determines what damage you do, ranged attacks in DF already travel INSTANTLY which makes them pretty OP.
>Unless it's not throwing.

Bull. Shit. I thought the cure all to dieing would be crossbows. No. Every time I fired a shot the game would instantly skip to when the arrow hit, which does make sence. But when this happens its quite possible to fire an arrow and then have a wall of text displaying the guy getting five free hits off you, and then slashing you in the brain.

[Xotano]

i didnt notice a difference, ranged weapons kicked ass before and they kick ass now, i'v always used iron arrows/bolts for throwing and those just turn the targets into swiss cheese.
that or they make them fall over in pain and my longsword turns them into collectable heads for my lair

also found wrestling was buffed or something, seems even strangling anyone a little bit makes them instantly pass out, makes killing just about anyone easy work, strangle a turn and they pass out, chop off there head, win

[Tryble]

 Bull. Shit. I thought the cure all to dieing would be crossbows. No. Every time I fired a shot the game would instantly skip to when the arrow hit, which does make sence. But when this happens its quite possible to fire an arrow and then have a wall of text displaying the guy getting five free hits off you, and then slashing you in the brain.

When you fire a bow/crossbow, the bolt travels and hits instantly, but the adventurer stops for several turns to reload.

You can test it by firing a bolt that kills someone; if it is a killing shot the target will die on the spot instead of moving towards you while the bolt is in flight.

In any case, this is why most people around here use throwing...it's just as potent as ranged weaponry but there's no pause to reload.

[Isher]

It's like watching v for vengeance. Throwing is OP.

I've tried throwing countless things but I still think crossbow bolts are by far the best. Especially with the two chipped bones per hit BS.

[Wwolin]

Just thank Armok that they aren't as OP as they were in 40d. Back then, a single arrow or bolt could peirce several unrelated body parts, and ignored pretty much all armor. You would see some messed up messages, like:
The flying iron arrow strikes you in the left lower leg, chipping the bone
The flying iron arrow strikes you in the right upper arm, tearing the muscle
The flying iron arrow strikes you in the left hand, shattering the bone
The flying iron arrow strikes you in the lover body, spilling your guts
The flying iron arrow strikes you in the throat, tearing the skin
A major artery in the throat has been torn
You have bled to death

And that's just one arrow. If it didn't kill you outright, it would knock you out, allowing the archer to turn you into a pincushion.

[The Grackle]

When you fire a bow/crossbow, the bolt travels and hits instantly, but the adventurer stops for several turns to reload.

Yeah, this is how it works.  No matter what your speed, after you shoot a ranged weapon there is a pause of X number of ticks.  I don't know the exact number, but it's a significant enough amount of time for enemies to rush you and maybe get several attacks in.  If you come out of stealth around several archers, you might notice that they'll all attack you immediately, and then wait some time before taking their next the shot.  In 40d, there was no pause, so crossbows were like dwarven machineguns; in DF2010 the pause was so long, and arrows did so little damage, that archery was not viable for an adventurer. 

Ideally, reloading would be its own action, so you could shoot a crossbow, then drop it. Or if you had a bow, you would have to load it, wait X number of ticks, then shoot it instantly at any target in sight.

[Montague]

So on a related subject, does this mean Marksdwarves are viable combatants again?

It is because bone tissue has [PAIN_RECEPTORS:50] while all other tissues have [PAIN_RECEPTORS:5].
Look in tissue_template_default.txt and you'll see.
I upped the 5s to 10s and downed the 50 to 25 and it's more realistic now - broken bones will not take you down as easily while flesh wounds will hurt more.

This is good to know.

[Gizogin]

Is your willpower/endurance low? Also, I don't know about you, but have you ever broken a toe, even a finger? Hurts >:3

Willpower doesn't matter if you break a bone. You're going to pass out several times before that extreme pain goes away, willpower just delays it slighty.
And I imagine having your leg slowly hacked off with a serrated bronze axe would hurt a hell of a lot more than getting your finger smashed. Not according to DF, however.

...Getting your finger smashed would probably hurt more than getting your leg hacked off. More pain receptors.
Also 1-2 points in willpower + endurance pretty much make all of my adventurers immune to all pain, bar something on the scale of getting their head cut off.

Getting your head cut off probably wouldn't hurt all that much, actually.  You'd die pretty quickly, for one, but you'd also be in so much shock from the sudden absence of your body that your brain would just stop (I imagine, anyway, having not gone through it myself).

But yeah, small (shallow) injuries often hurt more than big (deep) injuries, because all the nerve endings are close to the skin.  Especially if there's nerve damage, a really big wound would hurt a lot less in the short term than a small one.  I said the same thing twice, but you get the point.

[Fidel Franco Fox]

 Bull. Shit. I thought the cure all to dieing would be crossbows. No. Every time I fired a shot the game would instantly skip to when the arrow hit, which does make sence. But when this happens its quite possible to fire an arrow and then have a wall of text displaying the guy getting five free hits off you, and then slashing you in the brain.

When you fire a bow/crossbow, the bolt travels and hits instantly, but the adventurer stops for several turns to reload.

You can test it by firing a bolt that kills someone; if it is a killing shot the target will die on the spot instead of moving towards you while the bolt is in flight.

In any case, this is why most people around here use throwing...it's just as potent as ranged weaponry but there's no pause to reload.

Thanks, the more I know the better. I demand that reloading be a separate skill! On a side note do knapped stones do more damage than regular stones?