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[dirty foot]

 Bull. Shit. I thought the cure all to dieing would be crossbows. No. Every time I fired a shot the game would instantly skip to when the arrow hit, which does make sence. But when this happens its quite possible to fire an arrow and then have a wall of text displaying the guy getting five free hits off you, and then slashing you in the brain.

When you fire a bow/crossbow, the bolt travels and hits instantly, but the adventurer stops for several turns to reload.

You can test it by firing a bolt that kills someone; if it is a killing shot the target will die on the spot instead of moving towards you while the bolt is in flight.

In any case, this is why most people around here use throwing...it's just as potent as ranged weaponry but there's no pause to reload.

Thanks, the more I know the better. I demand that reloading be a separate skill! On a side note do knapped stones do more damage than regular stones?

I think slightly, from what I heard, at least.

[SuicideJunkie]

My last adventurer died (indirectly) from an arrow despite blocking it with his shield...

The first combat action against sapients:
> The bolt strikes you in the arm severing many nerves   
> The bolt is deflected by your shield   
> You drop your shield 

It didn't take long after that to die.

That's almost as if the arrow deals its damage before considering the effects of any defensive measures...

[dirty foot]

My last adventurer died (indirectly) from an arrow despite blocking it with his shield...

The first combat action against sapients:
> The bolt strikes you in the arm severing many nerves   
> The bolt is deflected by your shield   
> You drop your shield 

It didn't take long after that to die.

That's almost as if the arrow deals its damage before considering the effects of any defensive measures...

I'm not understanding why arrows are so hard to balance.

Between the strange targeting/damage, and the terrible sequential order and cost of using ranged, they should just be removed.

[The Grackle]

Between the strange targeting/damage, and the terrible sequential order and cost of using ranged, they should just be removed.

They're still necessary for Dwarf Mode, and that's probably what they balanced/buffed for. 

[Xotano]

yea thrown stuff is much better otherwise, but if your sneaky and have high dodge armor and block skill you never have to worry about arrows anyways, and i never seem to have problems with arrows hitting me before they are blocked, they are always either blocked or dodged.

[darklord1120]

Is your willpower/endurance low? Also, I don't know about you, but have you ever broken a toe, even a finger? Hurts >:3

Also archer is the skill which determines what damage you do, ranged attacks in DF already travel INSTANTLY which makes them pretty OP.
>Unless it's not throwing.

Yeah, but lets be honest.

If my character can survive multiple stabs to the upper-body and HEAD without falling over instantly. I think he should be able to survive an arrow hitting his toe without falling over.

[dirty foot]

Between the strange targeting/damage, and the terrible sequential order and cost of using ranged, they should just be removed.

They're still necessary for Dwarf Mode, and that's probably what they balanced/buffed for.

This whole issue would be moot were it not for the fact that in lieu of MOVING, you're forced to immediately spend all your "action time" reloading. Last I checked, you CAN do both; especially people that are well-practiced in using crossbows/bows. I'd settle for manually reloading in exchange for being able to move; but let's be completely honest here: you should be able to do both.

I'm not saying reloading has to be instant though, just that it shouldn't cause the game to teleport 5 moves into the future where you're trying to stuff your guts back into your lower body. Reloading should just passively happen as you're doing other things, maybe just add an additional turn every time you attack someone.

[Trif]

If my character can survive multiple stabs to the upper-body and HEAD without falling over instantly. I think he should be able to survive an arrow hitting his toe without falling over.

I think Toady tries to keep the combat pretty realistic. Hits to the upper body or head don't really throw you off-balance (unless you're getting charged or your spine gets damaged); but when arrows hit toes, they don't just graze the skin, they shatter the bone.
Losing a toe might not sound like much damage done, but it really upsets your balance when one foot suddenly weighs less than the other. Having a shattered toe adds pain to that, and putting weight on a foot with a broken bone is pretty much out of the question.

Good dodging and agility are probably most important for defending against ranged fighters. Getting hit with an arrow is always bad, no matter where.

[Powder Miner]

I've outright broken my arms before, and although it hurt, obviously, like heck, it wasn't about to get me near to passing out, and it didn't even really slow me down. And I was even a child for all of those times.

When I broke my arm I distinctly remember although being in a lot of pain and there being a bit of a haze, I was able to hold my arm and walk towards my house.

Also losing a toe isn't much. You can walk with nine toes, obviously, I have a relative who does just that, although the pain and walking on would probably bring you down.

Edit:
And I have a pretty low pain threshold too (I think)

[Kamamura]

To all complaining about crossbow bolt penetration - crossbows were badass. That's why Pope Innocenc banned them in Christian warfare in 1139. Allegedly, a crossbow bolt was able to penetrate a shield, armor, knight's body AND still come out of the body flying. Plus, crossbows required minimal training, allowing peasants to kill their noble superiors  - something that was unthinkable with other weapons. King Richard died of gangrene after being shot by a crossbow bolt.

[Melagius]

I've outright broken my arms before, and although it hurt, obviously, like heck, it wasn't about to get me near to passing out, and it didn't even really slow me down. And I was even a child for all of those times.

When I broke my arm I distinctly remember although being in a lot of pain and there being a bit of a haze, I was able to hold my arm and walk towards my house.

Also losing a toe isn't much. You can walk with nine toes, obviously, I have a relative who does just that, although the pain and walking on would probably bring you down.

Edit:
And I have a pretty low pain threshold too (I think)

I would think its safe to say breaking a bone as a child wouldn't really be able to compare with an arrow/bolt causing a complex fracture as well as slicing many nerves apart and generally just fucking up your arm.

[RAKninja]

To all complaining about crossbow bolt penetration - crossbows were badass. That's why Pope Innocenc banned them in Christian warfare in 1139. Allegedly, a crossbow bolt was able to penetrate a shield, armor, knight's body AND still come out of the body flying. Plus, crossbows required minimal training, allowing peasants to kill their noble superiors  - something that was unthinkable with other weapons. King Richard died of gangrene after being shot by a crossbow bolt.

yep.  even a longbow could penetrate a goodly amount of armor with the right arrowhead and shot (arced).  crossbows, on the other hand, could pierce pretty much any armor.

all that really needs to be done to "fix" ranged is making reload a manual action, and reduce damage from thrown items.

[Knigel]

also found wrestling was buffed or something, seems even strangling anyone a little bit makes them instantly pass out, makes killing just about anyone easy work, strangle a turn and they pass out, chop off there head, win

That's been like that for quite a while, actually.

My last adventurer died (indirectly) from an arrow despite blocking it with his shield...

The first combat action against sapients:
> The bolt strikes you in the arm severing many nerves   
> The bolt is deflected by your shield   
> You drop your shield 

It didn't take long after that to die.

That's almost as if the arrow deals its damage before considering the effects of any defensive measures...

Are you sure you weren't just shot by a second bolt fired by a different crossbowman at the same time? I've never had any problem blocking arrows/bolts with shields.

[dirty foot]

To all complaining about crossbow bolt penetration - crossbows were badass. That's why Pope Innocenc banned them in Christian warfare in 1139. Allegedly, a crossbow bolt was able to penetrate a shield, armor, knight's body AND still come out of the body flying. Plus, crossbows required minimal training, allowing peasants to kill their noble superiors  - something that was unthinkable with other weapons. King Richard died of gangrene after being shot by a crossbow bolt.

yep.  even a longbow could penetrate a goodly amount of armor with the right arrowhead and shot (arced).  crossbows, on the other hand, could pierce pretty much any armor.

all that really needs to be done to "fix" ranged is making reload a manual action, and reduce damage from thrown items.

I'd argue that should be able to move while reloading, just not be able to attack without penalizing the time needed to reload. It honestly shouldn't even reset the reload, if I remember correctly, crossbows have a locking mechanism that prevents the string from reverting back before being all the way cranked.

[darklord1120]

If my character can survive multiple stabs to the upper-body and HEAD without falling over instantly. I think he should be able to survive an arrow hitting his toe without falling over.

I think Toady tries to keep the combat pretty realistic. Hits to the upper body or head don't really throw you off-balance (unless you're getting charged or your spine gets damaged); but when arrows hit toes, they don't just graze the skin, they shatter the bone.
Losing a toe might not sound like much damage done, but it really upsets your balance when one foot suddenly weighs less than the other. Having a shattered toe adds pain to that, and putting weight on a foot with a broken bone is pretty much out of the question.

Good dodging and agility are probably most important for defending against ranged fighters. Getting hit with an arrow is always bad, no matter where.

Oh, cool. I can stab myself in the head and chest but not fall over or even stagger!
Yay, i'm gonna try that now!