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[Powder Miner]

It wouldn't matter, since both players have a hero and a dungeon.

[adwarf]

Well instead of heroes going first it could be the heroes followers, so each Hero deck would have 1 hero card, and several follower cards to try, and beat the dungeon for the hero.

[Skyrunner]

I thought the premise was that the first one to fulfill one of the win/lose scenarios won/lost O_o


So... its 'each player does attack (hero) / defense (dungeon) once each'?

Or every turn each player sets a dungeon card and a hero card?

Idea of turns:

Draw - Draw 1 card each from Dungeon and Hero. Should be easy to tell apart, such as with bold colors... though I am not sure how you play a forum card game >.>

Set dungeon card - play a dungeon card face down, for next turn's player to attack.

Hero action - Attack, use a hero card, etc. One would attack the opponent's previously set dungeon card. If it was face down, flip it over.

Next turn.

[Heron TSG]

I'll join the hell out of this! What do you need me to do?

[webadict]

Well instead of heroes going first it could be the heroes followers, so each Hero deck would have 1 hero card, and several follower cards to try, and beat the dungeon for the hero.

I was assuming you start as just a plain old adventurer. I'm not sure how Class or Race would work, but that is either mutable in-game, or set at start.

In your Hero deck, you can draw Items or Equipment to attach to your Hero to help defeat the Dungeon.
For the Dungeon, I don't think you should merely beat one obstacle at a time. That's not how a Dungeon works. You face many obstacles at once. Maybe there's two things. Maybe there's a trap. Maybe there's a monster standing on a trap with a monster inside it.

[Kashyyk]

In Dungeons, you always have a room, in which is monsters, traps and loot. Could we have it that you play a room from your dungeon, and then play monsters and traps into it? Once the hero has cleared one room, they can move onto the next one?

[Rooster]

Barbarossa TSG: Throw out wild ideas, give criticism for the ones already thrown out there, until we get an agreement on a feature that fits and move on to the next.

Okay, so we're going one (wo)man against whe world?

You know I've seen a youtube video in which TotalBiscuit does reviews called wtf? is XYZ. I can't remember the name of the game, but it was a ccg where, there was a main hero, his equipment and enchantments, and a front row for summons, monsters etc. We could go that route.

It could go something like this:
At the beginning choose a hero card, and a feat card from your deck, and put them into play. then draw a hand of 7 and choose one item to give to the hero.

During the game certain heroes can gain certain helpers, like a puppy, or a tamed monster by a bard or a druid, but other heroes rarely rely on helpers.

I think the straightforward way of estabilishing a win is to do it like any other ccg, but because there are 2 decks only one win condition applies.

The game ends, when:
- A player draws all cards from the dungeon deck, while the opponent hero is still alive, then the player with no cards in dungeon deck looses
OR
-A player looses their hero, and the opponent wins

Certain ideas for the future:
Running mechanic: The hero doesn't always stand and fight, sometimes he or she abandons the encounter to fight another day

Overburdened: A hero can only have as much equipment as his strenght allows

[JackOSpades]

I'd swear I've heard of this before http://www.worldofmunchkin.com/game/

Naaa probably just my imagination....


anywho

the goal is get thru your opponents dungeon deck before ether
A.) they get thru your dungeon deck. or
B.) you run out of cards in your Hero Deck.

Hero deck contains Adventurer(hero) cards, Items, and such.
Dungeon deck contains traps, monsters, and random bad luck (we are going for that rouge-like feel arn't we.)

Each player starts by drawing cards until they draw an Adventurer. the Adventurer goes directly into play, any usable 1st level cards are kept to represent starting equipment. all other drawn cards are discarded.

play order is established (however the players wish to do so, most likely dice rolls.)

player A's Adventurer challenges player B's dungeon and the top dungeon card is flipped over (assuming that no dungeon card is already in play.) and resolved (monsters are fought or flee'd from, traps triggered, bad things happen.)
usually ether
1.) the adventurer will succeed and the dungeon card will go to the discard pile.
2.) the dungeon will win (adventurer dies) and the adventurer card will go to the discard pile.
3.) Other such as the adventurer fleeing a monster or failing to bypass a locked door, the Dungeon card is reshuffled into the deck and the Adventurer card stays in play.

[Rooster]

I'll split my criticism to make it easier to read.

the goal is get thru your opponents dungeon deck before ether
A.) they get thru your dungeon deck. or
B.) you run out of cards in your Hero Deck.

This might ultimately be a clearer option and one that makes more sense, but I still think this won't provide as good of a gameplay that HitPoints would for a total newcomer. This also has bad synergy, because this means you loose when one of your decks looses it's last card, creating a situation of playing two games at the same time.

Hero deck contains Adventurer(hero) cards, Items, and such.
Dungeon deck contains traps, monsters, and random bad luck (we are going for that rouge-like feel arn't we.)

Each player starts by drawing cards until they draw an Adventurer. the Adventurer goes directly into play, any usable 1st level cards are kept to represent starting equipment. all other drawn cards are discarded.

I like the random bad luck events, but drawing cards until you get one adventurer and keeping the cards is inherently exploitable. Any rules exploitation instead of card exploitation is harder to change. For example, someone creates a combo with only one adventurer bent on winning the game in one turn with the entire deck drawn. Anyone not doing this looses. Set starting conditions, are safer to estabilish, because it is sure that both players start with equal resources. Besides, this rule only makes sense if you loose when you draw the hero deck out.

quote author=JackOSpades link=topic=101572.msg3007773#msg3007773 date=1329662607]
player A's Adventurer challenges player B's dungeon and the top dungeon card is flipped over (assuming that no dungeon card is already in play.) and resolved (monsters are fought or flee'd from, traps triggered, bad things happen.)
usually ether
1.) the adventurer will succeed and the dungeon card will go to the discard pile.
2.) the dungeon will win (adventurer dies) and the adventurer card will go to the discard pile.
3.) Other such as the adventurer fleeing a monster or failing to bypass a locked door, the Dungeon card is reshuffled into the deck and the Adventurer card stays in play.
[/quote]

Eating through a deck one card at a time is too slow. As in the article I linked to, the ideal game is made as short as possible and then 10% is cut off.
Also this is shuffle-tastic. M:tG players are proven to hate repetitive shuffling because it is both time consuming and stalling up the game.

I'll create a poll now to see what to edit in the original post and make into original rules

[Kashyyk]

I had an idea for the dungeon deck.
Every Card is a room, with something in it (trap/monster/whatever), and a varying number of doors leading to it. You play a dungeon card face down, and when the hero enters it, you flip it over and it interacts with the hero. Once the hero has defeated the obstacle he may move through one of the doors into a neighbouring room and then interacty with the obstacle there.

A dungeon card is played such that it attaches via doors to the room preceding it. If the hero ever tries to move through a door where there isn't a room on the other side, then he has escaped the dungeon and won. I personally think that a room will normally only have two doors, one to enter and one to exit. But occasionally a room may have only one door, or possibly three or four.

If a dungeon is built such that there is no way for the hero to leave, then that hero wins when he has 'cleared' the dungeon by defeating every obstacle in it.

[Heron TSG]

That could be pretty awesome, Kashyyk.

I think that the optimum number of heroes per team would be 3. That way people can choose a specific strategy using different heroes. With one, they could just be screwed right off the bat if their opponent has a deck that specifically counters that hero. With three, both players have to adapt.

[Kashyyk]

I'm liking Barborossa's idea too.

So I'm voting for: Multiple Heroes, with hit points, finishing the dungeon or killing the heroes.

[Rooster]

Kashyyk: Sweet idea! Do the heroes go all at once or one at a time, like in a roguelike?
Maybe retrieve the amulet of yendor and backtrack to the beginning would be the win condition?

[webadict]

That could be pretty awesome, Kashyyk.

I think that the optimum number of heroes per team would be 3. That way people can choose a specific strategy using different heroes. With one, they could just be screwed right off the bat if their opponent has a deck that specifically counters that hero. With three, both players have to adapt.

My problem with the idea is that it actually complicates things to a high degree. Having a Dungeon set up would be cool in theory, but agonizing in execution.

Also, I believe that having multiple Heroes extends the game beyond necessity. This would only be a good idea if each Hero were capable of straight-up dying from one encounter, which is bad, because then you have cards that can one-hit kill. <-- Not very fun.

One Hero does not mean that you have to have to have one set strategy. I think switching Races and Classes is fine, since you may do so in some roguelikes through various methods, and this would make sure that you do not get metagamed. Having multiple Heroes kind of removes this facet, as you're probably going to have set Classes or Races for each Hero, and that means the game plays out a bit more like Chess. Each side has equal pieces to start with. However, I feel that this style isn't a good way to go, because then you start playing a game of rock, paper, scissors, but one option might no longer be usable, so you always play the one that is weak to the unavailable option. If anything, it encourages metagaming even more.

Like, say I start the game with a Warrior, a Mage, and an Archer. I send my Mage in first, and he dies because I made a mistake. I'm left with my Warrior and my Archer. So, anything that would be weak against magic is now the best thing for my opponent to use, because even if it's a tie with another one of my Heroes, there's no weakness I can exploit. If instead, I have those cards in my Hero deck and I can play them freely, it encourages me to be more strategic in my changing of Class or Race, and stops you from only ever playing one set strategy.

Here's another problem we haven't mentioned: Resources. What Resources go into playing a Dungeon card? What Resources go into playing a Hero card? We should use similar Resources for both Decks, since you're meant to balance a good offense with a good defense. But, are these Resources in the form of materials? xp? gold? What?

[evilcherry]

It might be a better idea to make it domi-like. Especially if you don't want munchkin-style gameplay.

That said If we are keeping to the tcg premise, I would prefer a single hero multi hp system. Better still make equipments, titles, races and classes pieces of extra hp that would be added or discarded as the game progresses.
Dungeon cards should go in play iff a hero card instructs so, a dungeon card calls for, or there is no active dungeon card in play. That is, the hero deck should be dictating game pace.
For resources I'm undecided. A pokemon style (a leads to b), MTG style (different units need different resources), or Gundam (3 red for red mech). all are possible, but I guess thete won't be much variety.