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The Confederacy 'We will keep slavery and states rights!....

4 (15.4%)

The Union '....over John Browns dead body'

19 (73.1%)

The State of Texas 'Texan's always move 'em'

3 (11.5%)

Total Members Voted: 26

[nenjin]

While you guys were right I had my chronology off, Lincoln did try a few things between his election and the start of the war to mollify the South, like the Missouri and Crittenden Compromise, which he didn't approve of in the context of an upcoming war, and the Corwin Amendment which he did support, pretty much doing an about face on some party platforms.

Even then, I honestly don't think youre ever going to see my side, and most historians point of views on this. Some people just love the legend of Lincoln or the lost cause of the Confederacy too much to change their minds.

Just can't leave without a parting shot, can ya? Yeesh.

[Deadmeat1471]

While you guys were right I had my chronology off, Lincoln did try a few things between his election and the start of the war to mollify the South, like the Missouri and Crittenden Compromise, pretty much doing an about face on some party platforms.

Even then, I honestly don't think youre ever going to see my side, and most historians point of views on this. Some people just love the legend of Lincoln or the lost cause of the Confederacy too much to change their minds.

Just can't leave without a parting shot, can ya? Yeesh.

Nice catch there.

It's not a shot, its a fact. It's akin to arguing religion, youre never going to win. Some people know theyre right regardless of evidence proposed, as I have done. I stupidly forgot how rabid Americans can be both about Lincoln and conversly about the Confederacy. This thread was not meant as a debate point, it was meant as a, 'I would do this because'.

[mainiac]

Even then, I honestly don't think youre ever going to see my side, and most historians point of views on this.

Saying that it's most historians views doesn't make it so.  You need to open your eyes on this man.  The way one does history is to look at the hsitorical sources.  If you want historical sources on Lincoln's pre-war views on slavery then there is nothing better then the Lincoln Douglass debates and the House Divided speech.

[Deadmeat1471]

Even then, I honestly don't think youre ever going to see my side, and most historians point of views on this.

Saying that it's most historians views doesn't make it so.  You need to open your eyes on this man.  The way one does history is to look at the hsitorical sources.  If you want historical sources on Lincoln's pre-war views on slavery then there is nothing better then the Lincoln Douglass debates and the House Divided speech.

I'm not trying to be arrogant here, but i've read over 20 in depth hardcore books on the civil war from pro southern and pro northern perspectives, I have never read anything even suggesting abolishing slavery was popular in the north in 1861 or 1863 alike. If I had,I would formulate a better argument with more than wikipedia as a source. But I have absolutely no reason but your word that this is the case. If I am wrong on this, then so are they, on the weight of their knowledge and my own research, I really don't believe i'm wrong. Shit even wikipedia agrees with me, thats another historian on the list already.
Like I said, if you want to discuss it further, take it to PM's, I am more than willing to get stacks of evidence from numerous historians of both sides to cover my ass on this.
*But not now, and not here. It's derailing this.

[nenjin]

If it wasn't popular in some form, he never would have been elected in the first place. I do know why you see the idea that emancipation was unpopular in the North though, some of the stuff Northerner newspapers printed was just as vial as what was being printed in the South. It's a 40/30/30 split in the North to me. 40 against slavery, 30 for slavery, 30 that simply didn't want slavery in the North.

[mainiac]

I'm not trying to be arrogant here, but i've read over 20 in depth hardcore books on the civil war from pro southern and pro northern perspectives, I have never read anything even suggesting abolishing slavery was popular in the north in 1861 or 1863 alike.

Well you come across immensely arrogant because I've provide you with primary sources to substantiate my arguments and you want me to just trust you because you are a "historian".  I've read a lot about the civil war too but you don't see me saying that you should believe me because I say so.

[Deadmeat1471]

I'm not trying to be arrogant here, but i've read over 20 in depth hardcore books on the civil war from pro southern and pro northern perspectives, I have never read anything even suggesting abolishing slavery was popular in the north in 1861 or 1863 alike.

Well you come across immensely arrogant because I've provide you with primary sources to substantiate my arguments and you want me to just trust you because you are a "historian".  I've read a lot about the civil war too but you don't see me saying that you should believe me because I say so.

I provided a direct, on topic wikipedia link, which infact the whole page on the EP supports my claim. No offence but thats not arrogance, thats having the evidence to back your claims up.

You made assertions on primary evidence.
I backed up a claim with a source.

Take this somewhere else please. To that other thread if you wish, i'll join you there. I won't be wasting any more time on this right now though.

[mainiac]

You made assertions on primary evidence.

So saying that Lincoln supported eventually abolition based on his saying exactly that in his most famous pre-war speech is an assertion?

Okaaaay...

But yeah, I'm so glad you can find that someone who agreed with you wrote a whole wikipedia article on it!  Slam dunk.  I guess some guy on wikipedia knows Lincoln so much better then Lincoln knows himself!

[Deadmeat1471]

Poll is agrivating to many people, can't incite argument.