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[Calech]

This is a basic question, but anyway:

How to get the dwarves to dump certain stones? I dug a corridor for powering my pumps, and on the last square, where the hole should go for the power contraption, there is a stone lying there. I designated it to be dumped, and there's a garbage pile near it, but nobody seems to pick it up and dump it.

I have idle dwarves with hauling labors on. They have dumped a lot of stuff designated to be dumped after that, so they are not doing anything else, either.

One solution I thought of was making a burrow with the offending stone and a garbage pile, restricting one dwarf to it and waiting. Should that work?

Another question, I channeled the square already (because of said requirement to have power transferred through it, but the stone stayed there already.

It's like this:

Side view: 
                  XXXXXX   X = untouched stone
                  ____oX    _ = dug out space and floor
                  XXXX%X  o = boulder (with no floor)
                                 % = pump

Can the rock still be picked up even when there's a hole and a pump underneath? Deconstructing the pump would probably help if nobody is willing to stand on the pump.

The dwarves didn't pick up the boulder even before I channeled the square, so that wasn't the original problem.

I'd guess that if there is no walkable floor on the space, the dwarves won't be able to pick it up - just like with stuff that ends up on top of trees (bolts, body parts, etc) - you'd need to remove the obstruction from underneath. You could try building a floor there but I suspect you'd get 'item blocking site' cancellations.

Once the pump is deconstructed the boulder should resume falling (since there's nothing underneath it now) and land somewhere accessible, and if it's marked for dumping it should - hopefully! - then be carted to your garbage dump / quantum stockpile.

[greycat]

Back in 31.25 I used the trick to put all civilians into squads with basic leather armor and shortswords, which worked great.  I just started a new fort in DF2012, and for some reason my civvies only pick up their bucklers, leaving their trousers, cloaks etc. which are also part of the same uniform on the floor and generating tons of unhappy naked thoughts.

The one you were looking at was probably a Miner, Hunter or Woodcutter.

If that's not the case, then you need to give more detail -- what is included in your uniform, and is it set to replace or go over clothing?  What clothing is the dwarf wearing?  Triple-check that the dwarf doesn't have Mining, Hunting or Wood-cutting enabled.

[Stormfeather]

 With the stone thing, also what I've noticed is that sometimes I'll end up with a stone earmarked to be used for something - floor construction, workshop construction, whatever - that I set to be dumped. That seems to make it impossible for the dwarves trying to use it to pick it up and use it, but dwarves also won't dump it in that case. Make sure there's nothing that might be using it - including a suspended building. If there is, you'll have to unsuspend the construction if need be and unmark the stone for dumping, or as others have said you might need to also remove the pump below it to let it fall.

[Xen0n]

Have you set the uniforms to replace clothing, rather than going over?

Hmm, nope, changed all uniforms to "replace clothing" as soon as I entered the military screen.  (Does anyone ever find the 'over clothing' option useful ?)

dwarfs equip clothing on their own now, though they are a bit picky about it. Putting all your civilians in military now will mostly just cause a lot of bad thoughts from being unhappy about the draft. For the record, dwarfs now need feet covering, lower and upper body covering.
armor does not count as clothing for this purpose, it seems

So has the old civilian squad strategy mostly been abandoned then?  I was hoping to keep my fort full of sword-packing brewers and carpenters again... oh well...  What exactly counts as "lower and upper covering"?  The wiki seems to be clear that only shoes count as feet covering, and not boots, and I've heard armor doesn't count for body covering, but what about cloaks, etc.?  The wiki seemed a bit vague on what counts and what doesn't.

Back in 31.25 I used the trick to put all civilians into squads with basic leather armor and shortswords, which worked great.  I just started a new fort in DF2012, and for some reason my civvies only pick up their bucklers, leaving their trousers, cloaks etc. which are also part of the same uniform on the floor and generating tons of unhappy naked thoughts.

The one you were looking at was probably a Miner, Hunter or Woodcutter.

If that's not the case, then you need to give more detail -- what is included in your uniform, and is it set to replace or go over clothing?  What clothing is the dwarf wearing?  Triple-check that the dwarf doesn't have Mining, Hunting or Wood-cutting enabled.

Yeah, I remember back when I first started dabbling in uniforms I was very disappointed that my Miners and Woodcutters couldn't use uniforms properly (never really found a way to make hunters feasible). 

My Civvy uniform is a metal helm, a leather hood, leather cloak, leather armor, leather trousers, any low boots, and a wooden buckler.  I have 2 dwarves on mining and one wood-cutter (funnily, my miner who's also the expedition leader seems to have at least worn a cloak).  My one military dwarf is doing a good job of wearing everything in his uniform that is available yet (still summer first year), battle axe, a cloak, a hood, trousers, wooden shield.  Everyone else is just wearing a wooden buckler, despite a bunch of cloaks and trousers laying about. 

I've made sure to set the schedule for the Civvies to Inactive for the full year, and have their alert status as inactive to boot.

Some possible complications are that I've modded out most of the "pointless" clothes like loincloths, socks, shirts, etc that don't have much gameplay function, but my research on the forums in 31.25 seemed to say that the more clothes that exist in the fort, the lower the framerate due to all the wear calculations etc.  So even shoes and shirts are modded out, since I assumed I was going to give all my civvies low boots and leather armor anyway.  But apparently they won't count the low boots or leather armor as "clothes," you say?  Will the negative naked thoughts be bad enough that I'm better off restarting a fort with socks, shoes, shirts etc re-enabled?  2 of my guys are already at miserable   If so, is there any new way to mitigate the 'clothing drain' to FPS that was commonly reported in 31.25?

I suppose I need to make a second sweep through the wiki for all the changes... is there a handy page that details all the mechanics changes from 31.25? 

[greycat]

I've modded out most of the "pointless" clothes like loincloths, socks, shirts, etc that don't have much gameplay function

  Oh, please tell me you didn't....

So even shoes and shirts are modded out

No shoes AND no socks?  You are screwed.  You really elfed up.

But apparently they won't count the low boots or leather armor as "clothes," you say?

Correct.  All boots are classified as "armor", regardless of material.  Civilians cannot choose them as part of their attire.  They have to be assigned via a uniform.  The forum seems to believe that they will not prevent no-shoes thoughts, though I haven't confirmed this myself.

Will the negative naked thoughts be bad enough that I'm better off restarting a fort with socks, shoes, shirts etc re-enabled?

Yes.

[Xen0n]

I've modded out most of the "pointless" clothes like loincloths, socks, shirts, etc that don't have much gameplay function

  Oh, please tell me you didn't....

So even shoes and shirts are modded out

No shoes AND no socks?  You are screwed.  You really elfed up.

But apparently they won't count the low boots or leather armor as "clothes," you say?

Correct.  All boots are classified as "armor", regardless of material.  Civilians cannot choose them as part of their attire.  They have to be assigned via a uniform.  The forum seems to believe that they will not prevent no-shoes thoughts, though I haven't confirmed this myself.

Will the negative naked thoughts be bad enough that I'm better off restarting a fort with socks, shoes, shirts etc re-enabled?

Yes.

Hahaha I was beginning to suspect this was the case.  Welp, I guess the next fort will need to have bloody shoes again (true dwarves build callouses ), but in true dwarf fashion I will run this one into the ground and see how long my expedition party lasts before the insiduous nudity affects their sanity. 

For the next run, will making a civvy uniform with shoes, trousers, a shirt, and a sword interfere with their ability to replace worn clothing etc. , or are civilian uniforms a thing of the past?

[Garath]

they seem to have troubles replacing clothing if they are assigned to "replace clothing". If you just assign them no uniform but a shield, sword, helm and mail shirt and set it over clothing, shouldn't be any problem (except for unhappy about the draft). The pick up and wear clothing without a problem lately. High boots count for shoes, I'm pretty sure, so probably low boots too.

[Xen0n]

they seem to have troubles replacing clothing if they are assigned to "replace clothing". If you just assign them no uniform but a shield, sword, helm and mail shirt and set it over clothing, shouldn't be any problem (except for unhappy about the draft). The pick up and wear clothing without a problem lately. High boots count for shoes, I'm pretty sure, so probably low boots too.

Ahh I see, for civvies the main advantage of replacing clothing was that they didn't automatically wear clothes in 31.25, but now they do.  If I use the "over clothes" method for civvies you mentioned, do you know whether constantly being in a squad will interfere with their ability to replace worn/missing clothes on their own? 

[i2amroy]

they seem to have troubles replacing clothing if they are assigned to "replace clothing". If you just assign them no uniform but a shield, sword, helm and mail shirt and set it over clothing, shouldn't be any problem (except for unhappy about the draft). The pick up and wear clothing without a problem lately. High boots count for shoes, I'm pretty sure, so probably low boots too.

Ahh I see, for civvies the main advantage of replacing clothing was that they didn't automatically wear clothes in 31.25, but now they do.  If I use the "over clothes" method for civvies you mentioned, do you know whether constantly being in a squad will interfere with their ability to replace worn/missing clothes on their own?

I haven't seen any problems with it yet. The only thing that I found is that because they are managing their own clothing I can no longer do the power build with like 4 shirts, 1 mail shirt, 1 breastplate, etc.

[Xen0n]

they seem to have troubles replacing clothing if they are assigned to "replace clothing". If you just assign them no uniform but a shield, sword, helm and mail shirt and set it over clothing, shouldn't be any problem (except for unhappy about the draft). The pick up and wear clothing without a problem lately. High boots count for shoes, I'm pretty sure, so probably low boots too.

Ahh I see, for civvies the main advantage of replacing clothing was that they didn't automatically wear clothes in 31.25, but now they do.  If I use the "over clothes" method for civvies you mentioned, do you know whether constantly being in a squad will interfere with their ability to replace worn/missing clothes on their own?

I haven't seen any problems with it yet. The only thing that I found is that because they are managing their own clothing I can no longer do the power build with like 4 shirts, 1 mail shirt, 1 breastplate, etc.

Aw shucks.  What happens if you give them a uniform with 3 cloaks and 3 shirts etc. and set it to 'wear over clothing'?  Do they only accept 'armor level' items as part of their uniforms now?


EDIT:

I just realized, I still don't why my current civvies won't put on the trousers and cloaks that they DO have available, and is on their uniform along with a buckler and sword.  When I gen my next world with socks and shirts re-enabled, I'm still going to need to get my civvies to actually wear them.  Any other ideas on why they feel that a wooden buckler is all they need?

[GhostDwemer]

You can use dfhack's "cleanowned x" command to mark all owned worn clothes for dumping. This lets you use clothes in uniforms with the "replace clothing" option without having to worry about uniforms rotting off. Dwarves in squads will not dump worn clothing while on duty, so if you have scheduled all your squaddies to train all the time, they won't dump clothes often, if at all.

[Xen0n]

You can use dfhack's "cleanowned x" command to mark all owned worn clothes for dumping. This lets you use clothes in uniforms with the "replace clothing" option without having to worry about uniforms rotting off. Dwarves in squads will not dump worn clothing while on duty, so if you have scheduled all your squaddies to train all the time, they won't dump clothes often, if at all.

Interesting, thanks!  I guess the point of that is to avoid the negative thoughts I assume they get from wearing worn/rotted clothes?  If I used DFHack to destroy rotted clothes, would I still need to give the squads some free time to pick up replacement clothes, or would they know to do that automatically, even with full training schedules? 

Can I assume that if I did give my squads a month or two of downtime each year in their schedule, or put the required # of soldiers less than the actual # of soldiers in the squad (would these two situations be equivalent?), that they would find time to dump worn clothes, and also pick up replacement clothes, all on their own?

[Tirion]

My dwarves keep getting bad thoughts from lack of shoes even as they carry hundreds of pig tail thread shoes to my stockpiles. Urist, Y U NO claim shoe you want??

[GhostDwemer]

Xen0n: Yeah, if your squads have downtime they should replace their own rotting clothing.

Tirion: do they have no shoes, or do they have rotting shoes?

[Tirion]

Xen0n: Yeah, if your squads have downtime they should replace their own rotting clothing.

Tirion: do they have no shoes, or do they have rotting shoes?

No shoes.