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Author Topic: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Game Over!  (Read 189500 times)

GlyphGryph

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #810 on: March 26, 2012, 04:08:38 pm »

I vote for who I think is scummiest. I'll be around to make sure someone is lynched, if needed I can change my vote.

I think at this point most of UIs stuff comes from the fact that he doesn't give a fuck if we win or not. Unlike us town-survivors, I think he's a legitimate survivor, at that he wins either way, so long as he gets to the end. In that light, his actions actually make a kind of sense. Claim pilot early to try and get doctor protection and whatnot...

Urist, if you have anything else to reveal about yourself or your role, now would be the time to do it, cause it looks like you're going to get lynched otherwise!

ninja edit: NINJASx2
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #811 on: March 26, 2012, 04:42:43 pm »

Hell no.

I'm a little surprised he didn't get dogpiled on for admitting that he's okay with last-minute vote switching.
He feels like idiot newbtown to me.

Quote
and I'm getting a vibe coming off of him like he's looking for anyone to lynch, not looking for scum to lynch.  I also get suspicious of people focusing too heavily on WIFOM when confronted.
a) Can you give me any examples of what might be giving you this vibe?
b) What else would you like me to do if I'm being attacked based heavily on WIFOM? Not explain exactly why it makes a terrible case?

Quote
I can't help but find it very suspicious that we had two claimed pilots drop dead in a row, and the only remaining claimed pilot has not been NK'd (and possibly not even targeted for a NK).  Coincidence?  Sure, maybe, but the only one confirmed visiting UI night 3 was a guard.  I'd be willing to bet that UI was planning on explaining his lack of dying away as WIFOM way early in the game. 
I shouldn't even need to point out that it's WIFOM. How confident are you that I'm the poisoned cup?

Quote
Refresh my memory of when you changed your mind about extending?
When we were nearing the original deadline and hadn't reached a conclusion.

Servant, Shakerag, Toaster: What do you make of the Jim-Irony inconsistency?

Glyph: I was a simple observer on Earth, just wanted to survive, and would almost prefer to have been eaten by the dopps back then instead of being captured. My anti-tech field is how I escaped my cell. My role PM specifically hinted that it may help me again. Any more and I run the risk of directly quoting it.

I think at this point most of UIs stuff comes from the fact that he doesn't give a fuck if we win or not. Unlike us town-survivors, I think he's a legitimate survivor, at that he wins either way, so long as he gets to the end. In that light, his actions actually make a kind of sense. Claim pilot early to try and get doctor protection and whatnot...

That was originally my plan before I realized that the survivors were the town force. I claimed pilot early because nobody would believe me if I was about to be lynched and said "oh yeah, btw you need me in order to actually make the escape happen." Before I realized that I didn't have a choice of tech I tried to choose a deadman bomb to blackmail everyone, and when that didn't happen I realized that I should probably claim. The suggestion for a pilot massclaim was to verify both my story and the existence of a pilot ability. At that point I was neglecting the possibility of there being anti-pilot scum - a massive derp on my part.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get to class.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #812 on: March 26, 2012, 04:56:47 pm »

Everyone, I think Jim should go, and for one reason alone.

He knew who the doctor was, and now the doctor is dead.

And not just happenstance dead but, assuming Urist is telling the truth, directly targeted dead.

If he does, in fact, have an anti-tech device, which seems reasonable, the no kill makes a whole lot more sense. Shakky, what sort of shield did you say you had?
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #813 on: March 26, 2012, 04:57:58 pm »

Although - don't shield people's know if their shield goes off? Urist, did yours ever go off?

The "Jim skipped killing to try and identify the doctor" thing still makes the most sense to me.
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Shakerag

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #814 on: March 26, 2012, 05:26:02 pm »

Okay, wasn't expecting to have to make a bigger post here.  I've got to keep it short because I'm heading out for the evening now.

I have the Personal Shield (acts like a Guardian).

Unless someone is killing with some tech item/method, an anti-tech field wouldn't protect you. 

That was originally my plan before I realized that the survivors were the town force. I claimed pilot early because nobody would believe me if I was about to be lynched and said "oh yeah, btw you need me in order to actually make the escape happen." Before I realized that I didn't have a choice of tech I tried to choose a deadman bomb to blackmail everyone, and when that didn't happen I realized that I should probably claim. The suggestion for a pilot massclaim was to verify both my story and the existence of a pilot ability. At that point I was neglecting the possibility of there being anti-pilot scum - a massive derp on my part.

That sounds like scum changing their story to try and fit in to me.  And intentionally trying to set up a blackmail situation from D1?  Seriously.  Wow. 

IronyOwl

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #815 on: March 26, 2012, 05:35:09 pm »

IronyOwl is a Human Detective.
Correct.


Servant:
What I did was argue is that scum did something that would maximize its chances of success without taking into account what other people would think or adjusting its actions based on what other people would think. That's isn't 'WIFOM', that's just direct thinking.
WIFOM is the attempt to guess at the behavior of someone who knows you're guessing at their behavior. Assuming scum would do something to avoid detection at the cost of immediate effectiveness would also be 'direct thinking,' but it'd be the polar opposite, and just as much WIFOM, as what you're saying.


GlyphGryph:
Everyone, I think Jim should go, and for one reason alone.

He knew who the doctor was, and now the doctor is dead.

And not just happenstance dead but, assuming Urist is telling the truth, directly targeted dead.
This seems like an awfully large jump. Jim knew Bookthras kept visiting Imiknorris, therefore Jim was the one to kill him? What makes you say it wasn't one of the other people who knew what Book was, or someone killing him for being a good player, being suspicious of scum, WIFOM, random targeting, etc?

If he does, in fact, have an anti-tech device, which seems reasonable, the no kill makes a whole lot more sense. Shakky, what sort of shield did you say you had?
Doesn't this contradict the rest of your reasoning?


Shakerag:
Okay, wasn't expecting to have to make a bigger post here.  I've got to keep it short because I'm heading out for the evening now.
What happened to confirming/retracting your extend?
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #816 on: March 26, 2012, 06:28:26 pm »

All right. Jim's been online recently (last active just under four hours ago), but decided not to say anything. Lynch All Lurkers, and by all I mean Jim.

Irony: Jim's saying that N2 when you investigated me, you weren't there. You've stated that the flavor of your investigations on me and Dariush were the same, and he claims he did see you investigating Dariush. The scum also conveniently had a dead reporter whose N1 action (which would basically confirm him by giving the town new info) he could easily have stolen for use in a fakeclaim. And now he's lurking out the end of the day when his input would be greatly appreciated. Why, again, are you not voting him?

Same question to everyone not voting Jim. Am I really the only one who sees the flashing neon signs saying SCUM JIM all over the place?

Shakerag:
That sounds like scum changing their story to try and fit in to me. And intentionally trying to set up a blackmail situation from D1?  Seriously.  Wow. 
<cliched "it's not what it sounds like" statement>

Fuck yeah on the blackmail, when I tried to get the deadman bomb I was looking out for number one. At the time, my mindset was basically "screw everybody else, I'm outta here."

Glyph: I have received no notification of my anti-tech field being used. Mod: Would I know if my anti-tech field was used?
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Mephansteras

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #817 on: March 26, 2012, 06:32:20 pm »

People with Mind Shields and Anti-Tech fields are usually aware that they were targeted in some fashion.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #818 on: March 26, 2012, 06:53:37 pm »

Imiknorris:
Irony: Jim's saying that N2 when you investigated me, you weren't there. You've stated that the flavor of your investigations on me and Dariush were the same, and he claims he did see you investigating Dariush. The scum also conveniently had a dead reporter whose N1 action (which would basically confirm him by giving the town new info) he could easily have stolen for use in a fakeclaim. And now he's lurking out the end of the day when his input would be greatly appreciated. Why, again, are you not voting him?
Because what I know about Dariush (and most of what I've seen of Jim) doesn't like up with Jim being scum. Night actions are potentially wonky enough that I'm not willing to lynch him on that alone, nor do I think he's been lurky enough to lynch him on just that either.

I am willing to extend to hear from him and Servant, though.
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Toaster

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #819 on: March 26, 2012, 08:15:31 pm »

Servant:
Quote from: Jim
I don't follow. You're denying that it's WIFOM, while exactly describing WIFOM. How is your argument not WIFOM?
I think you intentionally misunderstood my argument.

This is not my argument: "thinking that Urist wasn't targeted because scum wanted to frame him for being scum, so therefore Urist's town, but that's what scum wants us to think, so of course Urist's scum." This is an example of WIFOM, and that's not what I did.

What I did was argue is that scum did something that would maximize its chances of success without taking into account what other people would think or adjusting its actions based on what other people would think. That's isn't 'WIFOM', that's just direct thinking.

Taking a WIFOM scenario, picking one option, and saying "This is clearly what happened" is hardly taking the wine out of the equation.


Urist:  I think I pretty much summed it up here.  In other words, it's he-said she-said with contradictory evidence in a bastard mod.


GG:   (emphasis mine)
Note that Dariush, our obvscum, had the same role Jim has (assuming we can believe Irony), and was not an alien either.

He knew who the doctor was, and now the doctor is dead.

Hold it.  You need to back both of these statements up, and you need to do it right now.

I think at this point most of UIs stuff comes from the fact that he doesn't give a fuck if we win or not. Unlike us town-survivors, I think he's a legitimate survivor, at that he wins either way, so long as he gets to the end. In that light, his actions actually make a kind of sense. Claim pilot early to try and get doctor protection and whatnot...

What makes his wincon claim different from yours?  What in your wincon makes you a town-survivor?

The "Jim skipped killing to try and identify the doctor" thing still makes the most sense to me.

How does this make sense given that he's claimed reporter?  Do you think he wouldn't have a scumbuddy to do the killing for him?
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #820 on: March 26, 2012, 08:36:39 pm »

I suppose Dariush could have been an alien, actually. I was under the impression he was a dopp, but looking back I'm not entirely sure why. /shrug/

He knew who the doctor was, or at least may have known because he was watching the last pilot and seeing who visited him. Who's probably going to visit the last pilot? Any remaining docs, for one. Assuming anyone visited, the least they would get an investigator town, at worst get a doctor. But with the general danger of guards in this game (observant and vengeful), looking before leaping is a good idea.

None of this is conclusive, of course. But Jim isn't stupid - if he is scum (and all the other evidence - his playstyle, his not seeing Irony, his not going AFTER Irony, points in that direction), it would explain why they got the doc, and why they spent a night not killing.

Quote
How does this make sense given that he's claimed reporter?  Do you think he wouldn't have a scumbuddy to do the killing for him?
Assuming any of his scumbuddies were left alive, sure. Or there might be other stuff going on, I don't know. I'm working with the pieces I have here.

And those pieces say one of Irony or Jim is scum, and Irony really isn't looking scummy to me.
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #821 on: March 26, 2012, 08:42:11 pm »

I suppose Dariush could have been an alien, actually. I was under the impression he was a dopp, but looking back I'm not entirely sure why. /shrug/
Because aliens don't get reporters?
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #822 on: March 26, 2012, 08:45:45 pm »

Goddamn, can't I go to school? I don't sit around all day in front of my computer wiping cheeto fingers on my underwear pondering ways to ignore you.

If you're asking why I didn't make a post earlier today: I didn't have enough time. Politely go fuck yourself if you think I should have.

Jim, can you explain your reasoning for following Bookthras last night again? You said his visiting Urist had made him suspicious. Go more into depth about the thought process there.

Imiknorris was the only claimed pilot remaining, so a visit from Bookthras and then no night kill is certainly noteworthy, but it doesn't mean a lot on its own. I followed him to see if he would try a different target. If he visited a different target, and that target died, then I would have seen him try to target Urist Imiknorris and then I would have seen him successfully target someone else. This would be potent evidence that he's scum.

Worth trying to get, I'd say.

Jim:
I was pondering the possibilities myself, so I clarified with Meph about it. My action is perfectly reliable. I see anyone who physically targets a person I'm watching.

So either IronyOwl doesn't need to physically visit his target all of the time, like his flavor with Toaster might suggest. Or he's lying scum.
Given that Irony claimed the same flavor for his inspections on Dariush and me, and you were able to see the former action, how much faith do you put in the first explanation?

I put faith in my read on a player over role results. It currently says that IronyOwl is not scum. Apparently you don't like the explanations I've proposed for why this is the case. Sadly, I've got no more to offer you. There's obviously something going on for why I didn't see IronyOwl visit, and you can bet whatever way you want and I'll bet whatever way I want.

What I did was argue is that scum did something that would maximize its chances of success without taking into account what other people would think or adjusting its actions based on what other people would think. That's isn't 'WIFOM', that's just direct thinking.

It is still too WIFOM.

You're saying that if Urist Imiknorris is scum, then he would not die.

This does not imply that if Urist Imiknorris has not died, then he is scum.

I'll pull a WUBA and arrogantly claim that this is basic logic that toddlers and very smart dogs can wrap their head around, and not very subtly imply that you are neither as smart as a toddler nor a very smart dog. It's fallacious to conclude that Urist Imiknorris is scum because he hasn't been killed, other arguments in support of that particular conclusion notwithstanding. (Which I also find weak.)

Everyone, I think Jim should go, and for one reason alone.

He knew who the doctor was, and now the doctor is dead.

And not just happenstance dead but, assuming Urist is telling the truth, directly targeted dead.

If he does, in fact, have an anti-tech device, which seems reasonable, the no kill makes a whole lot more sense. Shakky, what sort of shield did you say you had?

As mentioned, an anti-tech device is not defense against mundane (i.e., non-tech) targeting attempts. Even then, Bookthras was guarding Imiknorris, so if I tried to take out Imiknorris during Run Phase 3, Bookthras would take the hit and Imiknorris would get notification that I tried to target him. Urist Imiknorris having an anti-tech field doesn't explain jack about why there was no night kill during Run Phase 3.

Is there any more shit you'd like to sling at me in the hopes it'll stick?

He knew who the doctor was, or at least may have known because he was watching the last pilot and seeing who visited him.

Maybe I knew?

Good to see how confident you are with this theory.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #823 on: March 26, 2012, 09:05:34 pm »

The Vote Tally
Jim Groovester: GlyphGryph, Urist Imiknorris
Urist Imiknorris: Shakerag, Toaster, Servant Corps
Servant Corps: IronyOwl, Jim Groovester




Run phase has NOT started. The Rest phase has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Tuesday.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 09:08:17 pm by Mephansteras »
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fifth Rest Phase
« Reply #824 on: March 26, 2012, 09:06:14 pm »

...

There were three extends out of seven players. Last I checked that's more than the 25% needed.

Also when this game's over I reserve the right to shove a rant full of "I told you I wasn't scum" in your faces.
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Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!
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