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Author Topic: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Game Over!  (Read 189547 times)

GlyphGryph

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #600 on: March 16, 2012, 05:17:33 pm »

Also, since he's up for replace and is thus otherwise useless, unvote zrk

Bookthras When you post, it looks like your trying so hard. But then you always seem to go for the easy lynch targets, don't you? And now you've gone silent. Maybe it's just my gut, at this point, but something seems incredibly off about your play in this game.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #601 on: March 16, 2012, 05:53:56 pm »

I want to shorten so incredibly bad, for example, but no, it has to have stupid mechanics stuff tied up with it potentially.
I might actually be in favor of shortening now, just because this is probably the only time we'll have such a quick decision. The only problem, aside from the possible fatigue issues, is that then if there's no kill it'd be impossible to figure out why.

IronyOwl, if you weren't voting for Dariush, who would you vote for?
Not sure. Nobody else really sticks out as somebody who definitely needs it.
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Bookthras

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #602 on: March 16, 2012, 07:17:47 pm »

Bookthras, why no follow up? In fact, why have you been so very silent today?
Some days I'm busier than others. Today I've been busy. I should be able to catch up later tonight or in the morning.

PFP
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No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Dariush

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #603 on: March 17, 2012, 06:54:21 am »

So you left us a super-secret code that might prove super-vitally important to us, but then instead of just explaining it to us are going to try to use it to blackmail your way out of a lynch you have no intention of escaping normally.
Escaping normally from a lynch in a game with no roleflips and an unholy fuckload of survivors who are interested in anyone getting lynched as long as it's not them, especially after I've dared to go against the popular opinion and side with Toony? Naaaah, that's too easy. So easy I won't even attempt it.
Tell me, what about this revelation wouldn't convince us you were worth keeping alive normally? Is it the sort of thing you can just prove, or one of those "Guys just give me lynch immunity until the very end of the game and you'll totally not regret it" style deals?
Give me lynch immunity until tomorrow. Then I'll be able to use my ability. How does that sound?

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #604 on: March 17, 2012, 11:38:02 am »

Give me lynch immunity until tomorrow. Then I'll be able to use my ability. How does that sound?
Tell us who was lying about his/her role and I'll do it.
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If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Bookthras

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase
« Reply #605 on: March 17, 2012, 11:56:25 am »

...catching up. [Warning: Wall of Text Ahead]

Toaster:
Book:  I get the feeling that Meph is pulling our leg on the whole time/fatigue thing and it's all a giant red herring (of our own creation, which makes it even nastier.)
Maybe, but the shorten seems to have been the one thing we have been able to do all game to avoid a night kill, so I say we keep doing it... What else was different between N2 and N3? Both nights, it was a claimed dopp, both nights, it was "willingly", but only the night we shortened it worked. Unless someone has a different theory about the lack of nightkill (more about this below), I think we should do the shorten again.


Jim:
Yay! We made it!
In normal games people don't normally explicitly cheer if a night goes by without a kill. Sure, they'll acknowledge that it's a good thing, but never a cheer about it. Why are you?
Well, it's not a normal game, but mostly because we seemed to do something that worked - the shorten. The "yay!" was spontaneous, not planned, but in retrospect, I think it was because the lack of kill seemed to be because of something done visibly at day by consensus, rather than a private action at night by one player, so the reaction was visible as well rather than private. This is rationalising in hindsight, of course; as I said, it was spontaneous, I was just glad something worked, and we didn't lose a pilot for the third night in a row.


My main suspicions, in order: Dariush, GG, Toaster, Jim.
A bit of a wide net you're casting, isn't it? That's four out of nine players remaining.
It could be wider. I don't trust IronyOwl, Zrk2 or Shakerag, as they have been lurky and either non-committal or going with the flow on claims/votes. I don't trust Imiknorris because the pilot claim was his idea, and the two who listened to him are dead. In short, I don't trust any of you fuckers, but when placed in order of scummitude, the first four are as listed above.


Bookthras, you're apparently big on getting everybody to try and participate and figure out the bastard mod, but why is it that two out of four of your suspects are on there for doing exactly that?
Which two? GG I see, but what other? Regardless, they're there for scumminess, not for poking at the bastardry, see below my response to GG for details, but in brief he's on the list not because he poked at the setting, but because he tried to convince the town of a plan he knew the mod had explicitly said was dangerous and counterproductive. His reaction to my criticism was also scummy, I think. that said, I appreciate and encourage his (and others) attempts at unraveling the bastardness, and in fact it was his idea/question that started us on the shortening path.


GG:
Bookthras When you post, it looks like your trying so hard. But then you always seem to go for the easy lynch targets, don't you?
Prove it, or you are a liar. I have never gone for the easy lynch targets, but for the ones I thought were most beneficial for the escape. D1, I didn't vote Flandre, I hunted Powder Miner and the pilot thing; D2, I didn't vote Tolyk, I hunted Toaster; D3, I was the first to vote and chase ToonyMan, until he claimed. During D3, Dariush made himself a clear target, and I called for his D4 lynch even during D3. Prove where I have once "gone for the easy lynch targets."


Possible reasons for no-kill...
Doctor
Roleblocker
Scum bought my bit about us quicknolynching if no one died and tried to make it happen.
Day shorten had some effect on protecting us.
Toonyman was the one killing people
Scum read my argument and realized they were better off if they got to the ship, and had a better chance of doing it if they didn't kill people
They did kill someone, and its some sort of delayed kill, like a poisoner.
This is an interesting list. I can't think of other possibilities, so let's run with it. I'll rearrange/group a bit:
a) Role: (protect, block)
b) Scum are gone or chose not to kill
d) Shorten worked

Taking them one at a a time, I think role is unlikely: in paranormal, pretty much any protection results in the death of the protector and/or the attacker. Sure, bastard, but roles seem to be based on Paranormal roles, and there's no straight doctor in normal Paranormal, so I think that's unlikely. A roleblocker, on the other hand, would have claimed already; if you had blocked someone and there's no night kill, you'd claim it at once, yes?

The second, seems unlikely as well. Thinking it was either because they bought your "instant nolynch" thing or were suddenly enlightened by your strategic revelation that they shouldn't be killing at all, makes no sense. If it was a strategic choice for wifom, all it means is it's wifom; it's not something we can control or influence during day play, or something we can deduce to aid in the lynch choice, so it's meaningless. So, perhaps it's that all the scum are dead. It'd be great, wouldn't it? Given lack of flips and that the game is pretty much guaranteed to last until we get to the hangar or are recaptured, this could be the case and we wouldn't know, right? So what do you think we should do? Avoid lynching anyone because we've already won? Don't you think that may be a tad risky?

The third, the shorten, is the one thing that was clearly different between N2 and N3. More importantly, it's the only thing from the list above that is actually under our control. We cannot choose what people do with their roles, or whether the scum are alive or choose to kill. We can shorten again, in the hopes it works again. It may not, in which case there's no difference and we lose nothing, but then again it may, and it'd be great if we have another night with no kill, yes?

Shorten.
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No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Dariush

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #606 on: March 17, 2012, 01:26:30 pm »

Give me lynch immunity until tomorrow. Then I'll be able to use my ability. How does that sound?
Tell us who was lying about his/her role and I'll do it.
Well, I have nothing to lose.

I vigged both Native and PM. I was so suspicious of Wardens at the beginning because I am one and I had a two-shot vigkill with an added bonus of getting the target's race due to me being borked in the head. Native flipped alien, PM flipped human. In addition, I have a one-shot role steal (though still retaining my psychic powers if I had any unused) that will kill me if I use it on a non-human. A sudden thought struck me earlier today (OOC) and after a short clarification it appears I'll be able to use it on 'dead' people if they are actually alive flavorwise, so I plan to use it tonight on PM to get his pilot role. The end.

Bookthras

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #607 on: March 17, 2012, 01:34:57 pm »

Give me lynch immunity until tomorrow. Then I'll be able to use my ability. How does that sound?
Tell us who was lying about his/her role and I'll do it.
Well, I have nothing to lose.

I vigged both Native and PM. I was so suspicious of Wardens at the beginning because I am one and I had a two-shot vigkill with an added bonus of getting the target's race due to me being borked in the head. Native flipped alien, PM flipped human. In addition, I have a one-shot role steal (though still retaining my psychic powers if I had any unused) that will kill me if I use it on a non-human. A sudden thought struck me earlier today (OOC) and after a short clarification it appears I'll be able to use it on 'dead' people if they are actually alive flavorwise, so I plan to use it tonight on PM to get his pilot role. The end.

This is bullshit on so many levels...
a) So you are a warden, a vig, and a role stealer, all at the same time? Sure, that's very plausible.
b) So you did get roleflips over PM for those who didn't flip on thread? sure.
c) So you intend to use your magic rolestealing (which doesn't exist in Paranormal, I think) to make you someone we conveniently wouldn't want to lynch for the rest of the game? How convenient.
d) So you are town/survivor who wants the escape to happen and you've been doing all the kills... therefore there have been no scum kills all game. Sure, very plausible.
e) So you decided to vigkill both pilots for what reason? How would that be conducive to the escape, and if you did, how would you make us believe that you suddenly are interested in getting a pilot to the ship after you killed two of them?

You are made of bullshit, and will die today.
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No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Dariush

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #608 on: March 17, 2012, 01:49:28 pm »

...Book, you are so stupid. So very, very stupid. And the worst part, you're also scum.
1) I don't have the Warden's roleblock, only the listed abilities. That's merely my role name.
2) Yes.
3) Sure, considering the alternative is town losing due to a lack of a pilot.
4) Yes.
5) I didn't trust neither NF's not PM's claim, but decided to kill the one after whom I haven't been going all day first. He flipped alien, so I saw no reason not to kill PM. He flipped human, so I realised my mistake.

Now I have my own question to ask: why the fuck would I fakeclaim a vig, taking credit for both kills?

Bookthras

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #609 on: March 17, 2012, 02:24:41 pm »

I was looking over the roles to see if there's any indication of either a role-stealer or a two-shot vig thing; neither exist in the standard roles, but I did notice that there was an error in my previous post, so quick correction:
Sure, bastard, but roles seem to be based on Paranormal roles, and there's no straight doctor in normal Paranormal, so I think that's unlikely.
There is a straight doctor; the vanilla variant of the guardian doesn't die if he successfully protects, so I guess it's possible. I still find it unlikely, though, and continue to think we should shorten again.

But back to the scummy Dariush:

...Book, you are so stupid. So very, very stupid. And the worst part, you're also scum.
1) I don't have the Warden's roleblock, only the listed abilities. That's merely my role name.
2) Yes.
3) Sure, considering the alternative is town losing due to a lack of a pilot.
4) Yes.
5) I didn't trust neither NF's not PM's claim, but decided to kill the one after whom I haven't been going all day first. He flipped alien, so I saw no reason not to kill PM. He flipped human, so I realised my mistake.
So, you are a "warden" but have no warden power. You do have two abilities that don't exist in normal roles. Please tell me in detail the flavour of your kill on Powder Miner. How did it happen? What did you exactly do to him, in flavour?

Also, you claim that only you have been killing, and that your kill is two-shot. Therefore, there would only have been a grand total of two nightkills in the entire game, which would last until D6 or so. I find that rather unlikely, and it doesn't match at all with the setting of the captors chasing us; so you have no more kills and then what, do they just give up?

Regarding the rest, so you claim that you get roleflips which we don't, that scum has no kills, and that you killed both pilots. Why did you not trust PM's claim? Why his being a possible alien made you kill him, instead of a non-pilot, or instead of the other pilot who actually claimed alien?

Also, note this:
3) Sure, considering the alternative is town losing due to a lack of a pilot.
a) So you think town may lose due to lack of pilots... and yet you killed both of them. Reconcile why you killed them if you think town may lose due to their death with your notion that you want town to win.
b) We still have a claimed pilot: Imiknorris. We don't need you. Not that I trust him necessarily, but I trust you far, far less. And if you're gone, then by your account, whoever has been killing pilots is also gone, so he'll get to the ship, yes?


Finally,
Now I have my own question to ask: why the fuck would I fakeclaim a vig, taking credit for both kills?
"Why would I do that if I were scum?" is the textbook definition of WIFOM. It may be because you are about to die, and are trying to come up with a way to make us trust you, or because you want us to think that there will be no more kills, or to shield your buddy, or for a plethora of other unverifiable reasons.

I'm not interested in your wine. If you did kill them, you should die for being anti-town. If you didn't, then you should die for fakeclaiming it.
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No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #610 on: March 17, 2012, 02:43:45 pm »

Dariush:
3) Sure, considering the alternative is town losing due to a lack of a pilot.
Yes, there were definitely only two pilots. I'm right here, asshole.

Your claim is amazingly terrible. Why the fuck didn't you:

a) claim the kills sooner?
b) rolesteal N3?

And again, who was lying about their role? Native claimed alien and Powder claimed human.
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Quote from: LordSlowpoke
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Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #611 on: March 17, 2012, 02:45:42 pm »

EBWOP:
...Book, you are so stupid. So very, very stupid. And the worst part, you're also scum.
You don't need to vote someone to OMGUS them.
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Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

GlyphGryph

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #612 on: March 17, 2012, 04:06:24 pm »

Woah, uh... yeah. There's not even a possible argument about this anymore. Dariush, if any of what you said was true, and you were the only one killing, why wouldn't you have told us earlier?

No. If you've got ANY role at this point, it's Spore Spreader, Paranormal's Jester... woah, hold on a second.

Have any previous Paranormal's had a spore spread? Is the spore effect obvious when they get lynched? Do they get to know who else was infected?

Think - Toony was acting awfully scummy yesterday, bordering on wanting to be lynched, and now Dariush is acting like this. Assume we had scum, but they were hit by spores!

Would that explain the lack of nightkills? Do the spores overwrite previous roles?

Perhaps that's the twist in this game - our real enemies aren't the people pursuing us, but the things that might escape with us. Is this sort of thing possible? If it IS, what can we even do about it?
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Bookthras

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #613 on: March 17, 2012, 04:46:49 pm »

GG: Good that you are looking for alternatives, though I note you didn't answer my questions. Once again, prove that I "always seem to go for the easy lynch targets", please. Some thoughts on your thoughts:

Have any previous Paranormal's had a spore spread? Is the spore effect obvious when they get lynched? Do they get to know who else was infected?
There was a SS on BP1, but he wasn't lynched and didn't spread. Meph did say the flavour would have shown the infection spreading clearly. As far as I interpret the rules, infected SSs don't know each other, can't coordinate.

Think - Toony was acting awfully scummy yesterday, bordering on wanting to be lynched, and now Dariush is acting like this. Assume we had scum, but they were hit by spores!
As I said, I don't think they can coordinate, and that would have required them to be infected by Tolyk, who wasn't particularly jestery. Plus, dopps are immune, and both Tolyk and Toony claimed dopp.


Would that explain the lack of nightkills? Do the spores overwrite previous roles? Perhaps that's the twist in this game - our real enemies aren't the people pursuing us, but the things that might escape with us. Is this sort of thing possible? If it IS, what can we even do about it?
They do overwrite previous roles. However, they need to either be the last left, or win with town (not "survivor town", I don't think); given that Imiknorris is both immune and non-town, they can't win with him alive, and can't kill him. No, interesting thought, but I don't think this is what's happening.

How do you feel about shortening today?
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No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

GlyphGryph

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Re: Bastard Paranormal 2 - Fourth Rest Phase REPLACEMENT NEEDED
« Reply #614 on: March 17, 2012, 05:16:16 pm »

I can't really answer your question. It was a got feeling, and looking back it doesn't really bear out.

Meph: Does shortening multiple days in a row increase the danger?

Assuming it doesn't, I'd be fine shortening. I also think I actually already asked that, but don't remember an answer if I got one.
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