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[Dariush]

Book, so your idea of helping us win is... finding scum. Despite the lack of roleflips or the fact that we still saw no change from the beginning of the game. Also, what the fuck could have given you the idea of voting Meph?

La-la-la, I can't hear you until you answer my fucking questiooooon.

I won't answer your questions until you answer mine. I demand the fucking answer.

Actually, that last question was rhetorical. I simply stopped caring about you anymore. There's no way a townie would behave like that, especially one of your experience.

[Shakerag]

I'm developing a bad feeling that this is going to turn out like BP1 did at this rate. 

I was hoping that the thoughts I brought up earlier would have brought more discussion to the bastardly elements of this game. 

I'm starting to wonder if the whole bit about us not getting roleflips on "death" isn't just because of the flavor aspect.  I mean ... in a normal game, someone can make a claim about something (an ability, an alignment, an action performed, etc.) and if said person flips, we can potentially verify what they've said.  E.g. someone claims inspect results, dies, and flips (sane) cop, we can put solid weight behind thier claim now.  But here, I could claim something like Toaster and Bookthras are aliens, and there's no real way to verify that.  Given that this game seems to be set up in a way to de-emphasize roles (and oddities like Powder Miner being a Scientist, but having no tech), I wonder if the bastard angle to this game is completely outside of the usual scumhunting model.  Unless, of course, the bastard angle is to find the scumteam while essentially groping about in the dark.

[GlyphGryph]

Or, like Politibastard, there may be no roleflips because those players aren't necessarily "eliminated". Which is, I think, a distinct possibility here, considering the conditions.

[Bookthras]

I agree we probably haven't unraveled the core of the bastardry yet. We need more ideas (preferably better than "hey, let's nolynch!"). On the other hand, I doubt we'll be seeing the eliminated players again; their demise seemed conclusive enough, and I don't think that's Meph's style.

Spoiler: off-topic: GG (click to show/hide)

Yeah, you bastard, give the other bastard some ideas, why don'tcha? But man, that was a fine game. BTW, yes, LCS is eating my March away. Fun game! And I recognise a lot of politibastard in it, indeed.

[GlyphGryph]

Maybe not all of them, but we've never seen a body. He's been careful to say their being recapture is only "likely". I think at least one return, from someone, is highly possible at this point.

Nighttime-eliminated players seem to have more conclusive demises.

[Jim Groovester]

I'm developing a bad feeling that this is going to turn out like BP1 did at this rate.

So you think we're going to win the wrong game too quickly?

Or is it more that you think we're not going to figure out the bastardry in time for it to matter?

Because we've had three rest phases so far and have had a chance to lynch three people. In the meantime, we've gotten information, like the existence of pilots, hostile internal elements, doppelgangers, and aliens even if we haven't had roleflips. If that's anything to go off of, then we seem to be headed in the right direction.

But maybe....

Meph: Our are win conditions accurate as presented to use? I.E., there are no hidden win conditions that we don't know about?

Because if we end up having to go run to the power core of the space station and blow that up so that the xenozoologists can never capture people again, I'm going to be... well, probably not mad, because I think that would be pretty cool.

Also, Meph, can we willingly change direction and run towards other places on the space station?

[Dariush]

the existence of pilots

Wrong, there's no solid proof.

hostile internal elements, doppelgangers

True.

aliens

Wrong. Well, maybe there're flavor aliens like xeno infiltrators, though we don't have proof even of that.

[Toaster]

Okay, Dariush?  You're just disputing everything and antagonizing everyone without offering any solid alternatives of your own.

Why don't you give us your glorious theory of what's going on since you've shot down everyone else's thoughts?

[Dariush]

Sure, just ignore pretty much everything I've said since the beginning of D3 and the fact that it is fucking night.

[Toaster]

The vote's symbolic.  In any case, all I've seen from you is bile and "That won't work."

[Urist Imiknorris]

the existence of pilots

Wrong, there's no solid proof.

"Ah, yes, 'Reapers'. The immortal race of sentient starships allegedly waiting in dark space. We have dismissed this claim."

[Shakerag]

So you think we're going to win the wrong game too quickly?

Or is it more that you think we're not going to figure out the bastardry in time for it to matter?

Because we've had three rest phases so far and have had a chance to lynch three people. In the meantime, we've gotten information, like the existence of pilots, hostile internal elements, doppelgangers, and aliens even if we haven't had roleflips. If that's anything to go off of, then we seem to be headed in the right direction.

Moreso the latter.  It seems like the game can't be won early, as there are a (kind of) set number of phases. 

In regards to the pilot thing ... Dariush is technically right that we have no proof one way or another about whether pilots are real or not.  That's not to say there aren't pilots, but we (so far) haven't been able to prove anyone's claim about being or not being a pilot.  I mean, Crazy Theory Time here, but the claimed pilots could have all been on the scumteam and came up with the whole pilot thing on thier own.  With no roleflips, unless we have some manner of pilotcop, we can't prove anything yet. 

And now I think I feel dirty for agreeing with Dariush about something.

[Mephansteras]

Meph: Our are win conditions accurate as presented to use? I.E., there are no hidden win conditions that we don't know about?

Because if we end up having to go run to the power core of the space station and blow that up so that the xenozoologists can never capture people again, I'm going to be... well, probably not mad, because I think that would be pretty cool.

Also, Meph, can we willingly change direction and run towards other places on the space station?

Your win conditions are correct as presented in the Role PMs.

[Bookthras]

Crazy Theory Time here, but the claimed pilots could have all been on the scumteam and came up with the whole pilot thing on thier own.

And then proceeded to nightkill themselves. Yes, makes loads of sense.

But also yes, we need more crazy theories and speculation. I'm sure we're still missing something, so don't take my saying "the no pilots theory is stupid" or "the let's nolynch idea is stupid" as trying to discourage new theories... it's just that those particular ones are stupid, so let's come up with different ones.

[Bookthras]

I'm developing a bad feeling that this is going to turn out like BP1 did at this rate.

So you think we're going to win the wrong game too quickly?

Let me run with this for a moment. In BP1 it wasn't "won the wrong game", it was a failure to take the premise seriously: you were supposed to find the dopps. You found some, failed to find the hidden one; it wasn't a hidden game, it was consistent with the setting of "testing how good you are at finding dopps". There maybe something similar here. On the face of it, the premise is "escape on the ship", and what we're missing is that some of us don't really want to escape.

...Meph has made mention several times to "that'd depend on the situation on the ship" and similar points earlier. I think that means that what's important is who gets to the ship. As has been speculated, perhaps if dopps end up on the ship, they'll eat the humans on board and only the dopps win, and perhaps if a pilot doesn't get to the ship, then it won't fly and the escape would fail immediately. But more importantly, that if one of the captor infiltrators does make it to the ship, he'll prevent the escape still somehow -- sabotage, or sounding an alarm, or something.

That would mean we not only have to get to the ship, but have to make sure the wrong people don't, as well. Lack of roleflips sure hurts this effort, but if attrition goes at the current rate, it'll be only two or so people who get there anyway. I envision a lylo-kinda-thing on the last leg on the trip: two escapees and a collaborator have to decide who stays behind; if the collaborator succeeds in leaving the escapee behind, he wins, because the escape won't happen.

If the above is right, how do we find them? We don't seem to have a lot of tools to do so other than standard scumhunting, complicated by lack of flips. Or perhaps we have other tools we haven't thought of? Ideas on this are welcome. Or different interpretations on the setting.