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[IronyOwl]

I'm gonna be honest, I thought we had more time.


Bookthras:

No, I'm not a dopp. My win condition is explicitly for at least one person to escape on the ship, even if it's not me. I assumed this was the standard town win con (as in "you win if town wins, even if dead"). I'd find it extraordinarily weird if it was just me (plus the claimed dopp), so I call shenanigans; some people are either not reading their role right, or falseclaiming.

Would you be comfortable with a flavorclaim? What is it that makes you more concerned with somebody escaping than getting off yourself?

Finally, people trying to stop us from getting to the ship. To be honest, Native's death looked more like a vigkill than a scumkill; he had the most dubious claim and was fairly useless besides. That said, TolyK claims he didn't stop the kill and nobody else has taken credit, which seems to imply that either scum doesn't have a kill but town does, or that the scumteam indeed targeted a pilot. The first is possible (dopps activate on D3, scumteam is hivemind, etc), but I'm inclined to go with the simpler explanation.

I was right with you up to this point. How is a town vig the simple explanation? Do you really think a town vig took the claimed pilot out? What was it about his claim that was dubious to you? If scum had killed him, do you think they would take the credit? If you were scum and had killed him, would you have taken credit?

I meant the opposite, hence the "That said" and "First (vig) is possible, but I'd lean simpler" parts.

His claim added nothing new, and was more or less him saying "Uh, yeah, me too" in response to Imiknorris saying "Hey I'm a pilot, is anyone else a pilot?" and "Hey I'm an alien, are all our other pilots aliens?" Combined with his lurking and uselessness, it seemed highly plausible as a nice safe fakeclaim.

If scum had killed him, they probably would not have taken credit unless they were called out for it anyway or felt they could win while killing people that looked like good vig targets, which doesn't seem likely. As always, it depends on the specific scum, but there's not a lot of reasons to out themselves like that. I certainly wouldn't have taken credit except as part of a gambit.


Dariush:

All this bickering won't lead anywhere as long as we have no roleflips. Does anybody have any specific thoughts on the discovery of the 'dead' people's roles?

That it can't be done and you're activelurking. Do you have any reason whatsoever to believe that discovering dead peoples' roleflips is physically possible or a good use of our effort and time?

Also, what do you think of the flavor differences between TolyK's lynch and Flandre's? Significant or no?


Toony:

I don't think he's bad scum because he flat out claimed he was a dopp, which I have never seen a rational scum claim in a game before.

This is a good point and I wish I had had time to consider it more fully before we lynched him. I don't see what the bastardness has to do with it though.

That said, do you think the serum would have remained in full effect throughout the entire game and beyond? What do you make of the flavor differences between TolyK's lynch and Flandre's?

[ToonyMan]

If we kept TolyK alive we would have to trust the serum.  Comparing Flandre's flavor to TolyK's it's obvious TolyK was much more accepting of his fate.

[Jim Groovester]

I wanted that protect.

I'd like a few protections too, to make sure that I make it to the ship.

You don't see me complaining about it all day long.

Why are you being so vocal about it?

If we kept TolyK alive we would have to trust the serum.  Comparing Flandre's flavor to TolyK's it's obvious TolyK was much more accepting of his fate.

Maybe how much somebody protests in the flavor is a measure of what their alignment is?

This only applies to lynches, seeing as how we run away from anybody taken out in the night. If there's foul play, then the alignment of whoever's unlucky enough to get left behind during the Run Phase is more or less implicit.

[Dariush]

That it can't be done and you're activelurking.

Wow, attempting to break the setup instead of sitting there, lynching people and not knowing whether we are actually getting anywhere is activelurking?

Do you have any reason whatsoever to believe that discovering dead peoples' roleflips is physically possible or a good use of our effort and time?

Yes, I do, and that reason is called common sense. There are fourteen players, and we're losing two every day, considering no-lynching is implied to be an even worse alternative. We simply won't be able to get to the ship if things progress as they are. Or maybe there will be two people, doesn't matter too much.

Also, what do you think of the flavor differences between TolyK's lynch and Flandre's? Significant or no?

Probably significant. Tolyk is left on our side of the door, while Flandre was locked outside. However, I doubt this has something to do with their aligment, but rather with some external influence - lynch-protect, the day number, people who voted him, dunno. In short, I think that we may see Tolyk again.

[TolyK]

Baaaah?

[Urist Imiknorris]

ToonyMan:

If we kept TolyK alive we would have to trust the serum.  Comparing Flandre's flavor to TolyK's it's obvious TolyK was much more accepting of his fate.

Probably because he can still achieve his wincon.

Jim:

Why are you being so vocal about it?

Because I'm a pilot who isn't sitting around being useless. I'm the biggest target.

Dariush:

Do you have any reason whatsoever to believe that discovering dead peoples' roleflips is physically possible or a good use of our effort and time?

Yes, I do, and that reason is called common sense. There are fourteen players, and we're losing two every day, considering no-lynching is implied to be an even worse alternative. We simply won't be able to get to the ship if things progress as they are. Or maybe there will be two people, doesn't matter too much.

Actually, given that we reach the hangar on the sixth rest phase, we'll probably only lose ten or eleven. Maybe twelve, if getting to the ship itself requires an additional run phase. Mod: Does it?

[Dariush]

Actually, given that we reach the hangar on the sixth rest phase, we'll probably only lose ten or eleven. Maybe twelve, if getting to the ship itself requires an additional run phase.

Okay, now do you think that Meph would create a game where it is only possible for a maximum of six players (four survivors+two 'someone else should win') to win?

[Dariush]

I think Meph wants to play on our survival instincts, hoping we'll forget basic math. Every day every survivor will be glad he wasn't the one lynched, but won't realize that there's only a negligible chance for him to actually survive the rest of the game. Thus plenty of bandwagons, looking for easy lynches, lack of scumhunting and so on.

[Urist Imiknorris]

And then the scum win because all us survivors are distracted trying to stay alive?

[Mephansteras]

Actually, given that we reach the hangar on the sixth rest phase, we'll probably only lose ten or eleven. Maybe twelve, if getting to the ship itself requires an additional run phase. Mod: Does it?

Depends on the situation with the ship.

[Dariush]

Also Meph, you forgot to change the title.

[ToonyMan]

ToonyMan:

If we kept TolyK alive we would have to trust the serum.  Comparing Flandre's flavor to TolyK's it's obvious TolyK was much more accepting of his fate.

Probably because he can still achieve his wincon.

If that's true we should vote people who just want somebody else to escape.  That may actually be part of the game's puzzle.

[IronyOwl]

Toony:

If we kept TolyK alive we would have to trust the serum.  Comparing Flandre's flavor to TolyK's it's obvious TolyK was much more accepting of his fate.

This doesn't answer either question. Do you think trusting the serum would have been a good idea? Do you think he'd have turned at some point? What do you make of TolyK's greater acceptance of his fate?



Dariush:

Wow, attempting to break the setup instead of sitting there, lynching people and not knowing whether we are actually getting anywhere is activelurking?

And how exactly does asking if anyone has incredibly useful magic powers they'd like to share "attempting to break the system?" If I asked if anyone had a list of every pilot in the game or knew exactly what happened if we nolynched, would you consider me to be hard at work breaking the setup or busy being useless?

Yes, I do, and that reason is called common sense. There are fourteen players, and we're losing two every day, considering no-lynching is implied to be an even worse alternative. We simply won't be able to get to the ship if things progress as they are. Or maybe there will be two people, doesn't matter too much.

Hm. Fair point, but I still don't see any ideas.

Probably significant. Tolyk is left on our side of the door, while Flandre was locked outside. However, I doubt this has something to do with their aligment, but rather with some external influence - lynch-protect, the day number, people who voted him, dunno. In short, I think that we may see Tolyk again.

So you think the side of the door is the mainly relevant part, it's based on some non-alignment based factor that we have no way of knowing, and TolyK may return as a result of it.

Why?



Everyone:

If that's true we should vote people who just want somebody else to escape.  That may actually be part of the game's puzzle.

The trouble here is that we've only got two of them. Unless the volunteers can hold the line for longer than a night each, that's not going to account for many lynches.

I'm inclined to believe such a thing is possible, what with TolyK barricading the door and such, but it'd definitely be a risky thing to test.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I guess we'll see how successful TolyK is pretty soon.

[ToonyMan]

Toony:

If we kept TolyK alive we would have to trust the serum.  Comparing Flandre's flavor to TolyK's it's obvious TolyK was much more accepting of his fate.

This doesn't answer either question. Do you think trusting the serum would have been a good idea? Do you think he'd have turned at some point? What do you make of TolyK's greater acceptance of his fate?

Well, by extension I don't think he would have turned.  My goal (including a bunch of others) is to get to the ship anyhow.  Maybe this is looking at the finer details but even if the serum was a fraud I'd take the higher chance of winning than somehow losing, unless this can be cleared up knowledge-wise.

As for the great acceptance of fate, I see it as important.  Usually flavor isn't too important but there's a very clear, concise difference between Flandre and TolyK which goes beyond how they acted before getting lynched.  Like Meph was going to do something no matter what happened.