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[Zrk2]

My goal is to escape on the ship.

[Jim Groovester]

Everyone:  Cards on the table.  What's your wincon?

Escape on the ship.

But I'll play. My wincon is that someone makes it to the ship, but it doesn't have to be me; I win if people make it. Though of course I'd prefer to be on board as well.

You have the same wincon as TolyK. What makes you different?

TolyK is a dopp. Maybe you are too? And the someone you need to get to the ship is not a general reference, but a specific one, i.e., you win if some dopp gets to the ship.

[Powder Miner]

What really made me think I was a survivor is that Meph basically told me I don't care all that much about you guys.

So what, we have survivor town vs scum?

[IronyOwl]

Really, really sorry about vanishing like that.


To start with, extend and my wincon is to escape on the ship.



Bookthras:

IronyOwl: What's your read on Jim, Toaster and ToonyMan?

Jim strikes me as town. I really don't think he'd care or have that kind of patience explaining to PM that he's actually town if Jim was scum.

Toaster I'm uncertain of. He's correct that Imiknorris' case on him was garbage, and the preoccupation with third parties is an interesting point. On the other hand, Imiknorris was the first to claim pilots had to be aliens as well, which requires that he had some way of knowing that or that it was some kind of gambit. I guess I'm leaning a bit towards vindictiveness as opposed to scumminess or being mistaken in an entirely genuine fashion.

Toony I don't like. This in particular makes me wonder what the hell he's doing, and since D1 he said 3-4 pilots would be believable but now he's saying most of our pilots probably didn't claim, I think I'm leaning towards scum on him. He's also been evasive on the subject, which I don't like.

IronyOwl: Quit lurking and answer my earlier questions, and also give us your answer to this I asked Jim earlier:

do you think we should take measures to ensure at least one pilot survives to the ship? If so, how would you do it? What stance would you take on those who advocate to take those pilots away? What reasons are justifiable, in your opinion, for lynching a claimed pilot (lurky? useless? scummy? claimed dopp?)? More importantly: do you think that some of the actual active players have a win condition of not letting escapees get to the ship? If so, how do you think they plan to achieve their goal?

Sorry.

I do think we need to make sure at least one pilot reaches the ship. How is another matter; in general, even lurky, scummy, useless pilots are useful to us later on, but the issue comes down to how we know they're actually (non-dopp) pilots. I don't have a good answer to that.

As far as people who would like to see our pilots removed, I'd say it depends on their apparent motivation, as with everything. I'm fully opposed to lynching every claimed pilot on the assurances that there's "probably" more out there or "maybe" we don't need a pilot after all, but I'm not keen on giving blanket immunity either. The real distinction may be what the individuals in question intend to do to ensure we retain at least one, with "nothing" indicating that maybe they need to be in the noose instead.


Lynching claimed pilots depends, as I've said, on how we intend to get off this station without them. If we have reason to believe that someone is the only pilot left, there's no excuse for lynching them period, because we're screwed without them anyway. If we have reason to believe we've got plenty of pilots left, their pilot status isn't an issue and whatever's normally good reasons for lynching them applies as normal.

More specifically, lurky and useless pilots I'd be kind of on the fence regarding, though in PM's case he's taking it to a level where it's outright scummy. Scummy or claimed dopp pilots I'm more wary of, since even if they are serum'd I'm inclined to agree about it running out. In either case, I'm thinking a dopp, pilot or no, making it on board is probably game over for the rest of us.


Finally, people trying to stop us from getting to the ship. To be honest, Native's death looked more like a vigkill than a scumkill; he had the most dubious claim and was fairly useless besides. That said, TolyK claims he didn't stop the kill and nobody else has taken credit, which seems to imply that either scum doesn't have a kill but town does, or that the scumteam indeed targeted a pilot. The first is possible (dopps activate on D3, scumteam is hivemind, etc), but I'm inclined to go with the simpler explanation.

As far as how they'd accomplish their goals, I assume just kill all the pilots. Whether they'd be subtle or even outwardly opposed to it or overtly try to lynch them would depend on the person.



TolyK, why did you protect me and not someone else, like a pilot? Why so eager to let other people decide who you should protect?

Addressing this might be better for your health. Why'd you ignore/how'd you miss it the first time?



Toony:

Toaster's aim for Urist is great.  Dariush brings up awesome points.  And TolyK is just bad town.

What do you mean by his aim being great? What awesome points is Dariush bringing up? What makes you say TolyK is bad town?

All of our pilots won't die if they aren't stupid enough to get themselves lynched.

Which of Imiknorris, Native, and PM do you think actually are/were pilots? Because earlier you said:

Probably anymore than 3 or 4 would push my limits.  Sure Meph would want a few pilots however too many would be unfair.  Unless Meph is bastardizing something here.

Which seems to imply that either you're fine with lynching all or almost all of our pilots, or you don't actually believe several of our claims, or you've found reason to change your mind since then. Which is it?

I mean TolyK is getting himself lynched for acting stupid.  If he claimed pilot would you not touch him?  See the reasoning here?  Of course he would have had to claim earlier to make it effective, like some other individuals but the reasoning still exists.

I thought you disapproved of lynching TolyK?

[Mephansteras]

The Vote Tally
Powder Miner: Dariush, Toonyman
Toaster: Bookthras, Think0028
TolyK: IronyOwl, Jim Groovester, Shakerag, Zrk2
Urist Imiknorris: Toaster
Zrk2: Urist Imiknorris


Rest phase has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Tuesday.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Toony:

Sorry to disappoint you but my goal is to escape.  Happy infiltrator scum?

No. Why would you put up a fuss and stoke paranoia (Oh noes, I have a sneaky plan that revolves around your wincon!) about claiming town? Also you're lying for a reason I already explained. I was going to wait until Zrk2 answered my questions but ToonyMan.

Toaster:

Since when was there a pilot massclaim?

Do you remember that thing I did yesterday where I asked all pilots to claim? You know, the thing that forms most of your argument against me?

Zrk2

Shakerag:

I'm trying to get to the ship also.

Just to the ship?

IronyOwl: If Native was vigged as you suggest, why would the killer not have claimed?

[IronyOwl]

IronyOwl: If Native was vigged as you suggest, why would the killer not have claimed?

To avoid Bad Things happening to them, presumably. Kills that were held back for some reason, roleblocks, whatever the scumteam can do in place of killing, etc.

But yes, that's another reason it doesn't seem likely.

[ToonyMan]

@IronyOwl:
I agreed with Toaster's points.  Dariush mentions that TolyK is telling the truth, which I agreed with.  TolyK is bad town because he's gaining a lot of suspicion and not doing anything about it.  Urist's pilot claim I believe the most, the rest not so much.  I do disapprove of lynching TolyK but he's playing very badly.

@Urist:
How scared of me are you?  It's quite entertaining hehehe

[Urist Imiknorris]

You don't scare me as long as TolyK's alive.

I do disapprove of lynching TolyK but he's playing very badly.

But this is interesting. Why are you voting him if you disapprove of lynching him?

[Urist Imiknorris]

EBWOP: Oh wait, I was thinking of Zrk2 for some reason. Never mind that.

[ToonyMan]

Slipping I see?  Do you care about actually voting scum or what?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Nah, just derping. Of course I care about voting scum - that's why I'm voting you.

[IronyOwl]

Toony:

I agreed with Toaster's points.

Urist's pilot claim I believe the most, the rest not so much.

These two seem rather at odds, unless "the most" is still pretty low.

TolyK is bad town because he's gaining a lot of suspicion and not doing anything about it.

But what about this makes you say he's bad town as opposed to bad scum?

[TolyK]

TolyK, why did you protect me and not someone else, like a pilot? Why so eager to let other people decide who you should protect?

First night I honestly didn't know who to protect. And I was hoping to catch someone slip by saying "protect Blah", which would be his teammate/whatever.

Addressing this might be better for your health. Why'd you ignore/how'd you miss it the first time?

*shrugs* I probably did "open in new tab" and forgot about replying... >.>

TolyK:

That was a different thing I was talking about.

What different thing? You've claimed a full roleclaim, but the only thing I see that'd be "difficult" would be being a doctor, which I don't see how you could not realize from the beginning.

It was difficult in that I'm both town-allied and a doppleganger, such that it's like a miller thing.

But anyways, my wincon is to have at least someone escape on the ship.

So yeah. My role is basically a miller survivor with a cherry on top...

These two are contradictory.

I'm a miller with the first wincon.
And a doctor. Awesome huh?

Then why'd you describe yourself as a survivor?

Because I messed up?

Also, does your PM specifically mention anything about being a miller, ie "the humans probably won't like that?"

No, it doesn't. I will probably show up as "doppelganger" on inspect.

although I think it's possible for their wincon to change during the day/night.

I know nothing about win conditions that change, but the stuff I do know is from my role pm.

Then why imply that you do?

I wasn't implying anything. I was saying that since it's a bastard mod anything can happen, including this. Someone else even mentioned "dopps turning scum d3" or something. I don't know.

I'm a dopp that wants at least one guy to make it to the shuttle. I have a protect that I can use... I've noticed an inconsistency, I've PM'd Meph about it.
Don't believe me? Tell me to protect whoever.

One shot or consistent? Do you explicitly know that the target would be made aware of it?

Consistent, afaik. I don't know if the target knows, why don't you tell me?

Received confirmation that I do indeed protect a captive, not a captor.

!

What do you mean "captive, not a captor?" Are there captors among us, or are you just specifying that you won't defend security forces or something? Will it fail if used against a captor, making it an inspect of sorts? What exactly, as close as you can describe, was this contradiction that led you to ask about this?

There was a typo in my role pm, where think said something along the lines of "protect a captor" instead of "protect a captive".
I don't know if there are captors among us, and this seems to specify /anyone/ I'm running with.

[TolyK]

Also, uh.
As a player, I'm both bad at town and scum.