Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Bookthras]

Jim:

b)

If all the people voting claimed pilots are apparently infiltrators or whatever, what do you make of Dariush voting Powder Miner, a claimed pilot, as well? If your logic is that 'This set of motives fits these actions' then Dariush would likely be an infiltrator too, right?

I hadn't noticed Dariush's vote, so I didn't include him on my list. My point is specifically about Toaster, rather than "all pilot voters", since he's the one that explicitly decried pilots as unimportant, plus his case was mostly bunk and he was the most insistent on pursuing it. I'm not saying pilots should be forgiven all trespasses, I'm saying that if you care to make it to a flyable ship, you should take into consideration that we're likely to need a pilot to fly it. "He's useless, let's lynch him" is not only insufficient, it's counterproductive enough to be scummy. He may be useless now, but once on the ship, he would be more useful than most of us, given the setting.

Take Toony, for example. He's voting Powder Miner because he's "useless and doesn't care if he lives." PM may not care. Toony may not care. I do care that we have at least one pilot by the time we get to the ship, so I oppose lynching them merely because they are useless or lurky.

Toaster, on the other hand, voted a pilot pretty much as soon as he claimed, stayed on him, built a (mostly) bullshit case against him, and advocates his lynch even after losing another pilot in the run. That tells me he wants us not to have pilots more than he cares whether Imiknorris is "scummy" or not.


But I'd like to hear your take on this Jim: do you think we should take measures to ensure at least one pilot survives to the ship? If so, how would you do it? What stance would you take on those who advocate to take those pilots away? What reasons are justifiable, in your opinion, for lynching a claimed pilot (lurky? useless? scummy? claimed dopp?)? More importantly: do you think that some of the actual active players have a win condition of not letting escapees get to the ship? If so, how do you think they plan to achieve their goal?


Toaster:

I'm fully aware of that point that we most likely need a pilot to not die.

I don't think you are (or rather, I think you wish us not to have one). We have two claimed pilots left: Powder Miner and Imiknorris. You are voting one of them, for asking pilots to claim. Do you think that's enough to sacrifice him? How do you propose we ensure we have a pilot by D6?

However, I'm not at all prepared to hand out blanket immunity to anyone who claims pilot.

Blanket immunity is not called for. If they are scummy enough, lynch them. But I'm not convinced Imiknorris is scummy enough, and given your bullshit case I find it more probable you are scum for voting him to prevent us from having him around.

Given that most people haven't claimed their pilot status either way, why should we avoid lynching one?

Three have claimed pilot out of 14 players. Please give me your estimate of how many unclaimed pilots remain. Then in context tell me how good an idea is to lynch 50% of the remaining claimed ones.

Toaster: please give your scumminess read on Powder Miner, Jim, Dariush and ToonyMan.


ToonyMan:

Bookthras with his most recent post.  He's acting on a counter wave and seeing if he can get a lynch in that way.  Not cool.

"Counter wave"? So, you think going against groupthink is uncool? Pardon me for having an original thought. We should just vote for the "wave" thing then. Screw you. Please explain in detail who the fuck is going to fly the ship if you and Toaster succeed in lynching all our remaining claimed pilots. Then explain why you want to do that.

[ToonyMan]

It's not the pilot it's the player.

[Bookthras]

Please explain in detail who the fuck is going to fly the ship if you and Toaster succeed in lynching all our remaining claimed pilots. Then explain why you want to do that.

[ToonyMan]

That's not why I'm voting them.  I can't explain what I'm not doing.

[Dariush]

Please explain in detail who the fuck is going to fly the ship if you and Toaster succeed in lynching all our remaining claimed pilots.

Uh... an AI, maybe? Seriously, we don't know whether pilots even matter whatsoever, what with the lack of roleflips. For all we know, Urist I may just have lied about being a pilot so he won't get lynched and the rest joined in for the same purpose.

Note how I underlined and italicized 'know'. If you strip away all the guesswork, we get PM with his 'I am so brilliant I can fly the ship after a glance' claim aaaaaaand... uh... not much else.

[TolyK]

But I personally don't want to take bad chances. Since I win with whoever, I'd prefer pilots (scum or not) to be kept alive, thank you.

[Toaster]

Book:  I don't have any idea of how many potential pilots there are, but I'm going to make a ballpark guess of three more- that'd be just under half the players.  Few enough so there's a decent chance of losing them all, but enough so we're not likely to just get screwed arbitrarily.

Urist I is a claimed alien survivor that can pilot.  Given he's the first to mention piloting, that means he's telling the truth about being one or knows that he needs to find them and eliminate them.  I favor the latter, of course.  Why?  If he's so concerned about the safety of pilots, why flush them out so early in the game?  (Not a rhetorical question, by the way.)  What's your view of a mass pilot claim?

I don't have a proposal for keeping them around, other than let's not get them all found out so early in the game.


Powder Miner:  I find his claim believable.  I can usually pick out Scum Powder Miner, and this isn't it.  Probably not a great lynch, in retrospect.

Jim:  I can't read him- his scum and town play are hard to tell apart.  I haven't seen anything from him that makes me wary.

Dariush:  He tends to play on gut, bile, and stubbornness when he's town.  He's doing that now.  His case on Powder sucks, though.

Toony:  He's hard to read for a different reason- he plays a much different game than I do.  I'm going with townish since his points seem reasonable.

Free read on TolyK:  #2 scum.  His "I'm a survivor and I'm going to do fuck all" act doesn't fly with me.

[Mephansteras]

The Vote Tally
Powder Miner: Dariush, Toonyman
Toaster: Bookthras, Think0028
TolyK: IronyOwl, Jim Groovester, Shakerag
Toonyman: Urist Imiknorris
Urist Imiknorris: Toaster


Rest phase ends ~5pm Pacific Monday

[Think0028]

... Um, I'm not voting for myself, I'm voting for Toaster. Right? I didn't make that bad of a typo?

[Mephansteras]

Fixed. My mark was a column off in the vote spreadsheet.

[TolyK]

Toaster: Why do you think there are many pilots, and that urist i is indeed doing your WIFOM-inducing guess?

[Toaster]

TolyK:

Few enough so there's a decent chance of losing them all, but enough so we're not likely to just get screwed arbitrarily.

I'm not sure what you mean by the second question.

[Think0028]

TolyK: Who wants us to fail? I dunno... maybe the SCUM TEAM?! I don't think I've seen any games where the scum team has tried to disprove the existence of the scum team (even in Witch's Coven, where that was even a plausible theory), so I'm definitely getting a town read from you, but damn.

Urist I: Hmm. Interesting theory, but does it give you anything to work on?

Toaster: Your case on Urist I is fundamentally flawed. Namely, there's the fact that in your post explaining why you want to lynch him, you state that at least one of the reasons is that he's claimed alien survivor. You say you don't believe his claim, but at the same time you occasionally try to justify his lynch by saying that he'd be safe and we wouldn't lose anything... despite the fact that if he's not lying about it, he's a pilot and we would lose something quite critical, namely a pilot. Ergo, it sounds to me more like you're trying to convince people that he's safe to lynch rather than actually thinking he's scum.

Shake: I trust Meph slightly more than I would trust GlyphGryph, for example, so I'm only believing in bastardry as such as has been observed. Namely, that I think there's a scum group working inside us, and that we need to find them and eliminate them before we lose. While I still am not 100% certain due to lack of proof, I'm willing to believe we need a pilot to survive.

[Zrk2]

Oops, missed one:

Zrk2:  Nah- that was Bring Your Own Trope that I had that power (No, really)- I just like puns.

Beautiful.

That's not why I'm voting them.  I can't explain what I'm not doing.

But it is certainly a reason worth considering. Tell us how you think the game will resolve if all our pilots die.

But I personally don't want to take bad chances. Since I win with whoever, I'd prefer pilots (scum or not) to be kept alive, thank you.

Okay fuck it. Contradictory and useless? Fuck this. TolyK needs to die. I was going to cut you some slack, but up and up being completely useless is unacceptable. Do you have any reason for us not to kill you?

[Powder Miner]

PM may not care.

I'm still a survivor and I'm still not TolyK.