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[McDoomhammer]

quote:Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>Look, it's called a chef's knife.  There's no such thing as a "kitchen knife".

And I can in all honesty say that I'm not the one making it dance the tango.</STRONG>

I put it to you that most knives intended for food preparation are used in a kitchen, whereas the majority of knife-users for the task of food preparation are not chefs!

[Kagus]

But the chef's knife is used for the majority of those food processing tasks, and a properly trained chef can use it for all knife-related kitchen tasks.  It is the primary, and sometimes only, tool of chefs.  Thus, the chef's knife.

[umiman]

In your argument's line of reasoning then: the only time you would call a chef's knife a chef's knife is when a chef is using it. Every other time, it would be a kitchen knife. You know... knife... for the kitchen.

This is like calling football, soccer. It's a game you play primarily by kicking a ball with your foot. Duh. Football.

[Forumsdwarf]

"Crime and Punishment" is the definitive classic on the topic of megalomania as a justification for murder.  The subject of the story believes he is a man of destiny, like Napoleon, a great man not subject to the laws and mores invented to keep lesser people in line.  The story hits, as you might expect, the theme of the morally fallen eventually seeking spiritual redemption.

[Alfador]

quote:Originally posted by Earthquake Damage:
<STRONG>Hypothetical course of events:  Life is dull.  Then it gets interesting.  Life is miserable.  Then it quiets down.  Life is dull.  Dull is good.</STRONG>

This is why I fully endorse artistic measures such as video games, books, movies, paintings, and sculptures. They make the good, dull times more interesting without adding danger!!

This is why statues are worth so much.

[Alfador]

quote:Originally posted by Lyrax:
<STRONG>Also: are you considering murder to be the same thing as letting someone die?  If you do, then there's a whole 'nother category that gets examined.</STRONG>

I don't, for the simple reason of panic attacks. If you could have saved someone's life, and indeed WANT TO, but do not because you freeze up and find yourself unable to act or unable to make a decision, is it really the same as willfully acting towards their demise?

[Arkose]

quote:Originally posted by Alfador:
<STRONG>

I don't, for the simple reason of panic attacks. If you could have saved someone's life, and indeed WANT TO, but do not because you freeze up and find yourself unable to act or unable to make a decision, is it really the same as willfully acting towards their demise?</STRONG>

It would probably be reasonable to make a distinction between failing to save someone, and choosing not to save someone.

[McDoomhammer]

Assuming the original statement was not actually referring to, say, euthanasia.

[Boksi]

The dull is good argument reminds me strongly of Rincewind. And I agree that dull is good.

[mickel]

I don't know if DF made me more evil or less human, but I really felt like I was coming home when I started playing it. But then I was always the guy to unleash a firestorm on my town in Sim City or jumping in front of rockets in Quake, just to see what would happen.

[Kogan Loloklam]

I agree and disagree that dull is good. Dull is good for an individual, but even in modern times it is war that drives innovation. The threat of nuclear and biological attacks have developed things on earth that are hard to even recognize as spawned from those things. The space race and all inventions from it are the result of the nuclear bomb and the conflict called "the cold war"

[Earthquake Damage]

quote:Originally posted by Kogan Loloklam:
<STRONG>I agree and disagree that dull is good. Dull is good for an individual, but even in modern times it is war that drives innovation. The threat of nuclear and biological attacks have developed things on earth that are hard to even recognize as spawned from those things. The space race and all inventions from it are the result of the nuclear bomb and the conflict called "the cold war"</STRONG>

The threat of war drives innovation.  See technological advancement during the Cold War for details.

Fun fact:  I didn't read your last two sentences before posting.  However, I should note that your statement implies the Cold War was indeed a war, which isn't entirely accurate.

[ April 24, 2008: Message edited by: Earthquake Damage ]

[nerdpride]

Most of us live in a modern era, but violence is still inherent in the system.  Maybe like how the hammerer metes out justice one disgusting blow after another and the tantrums maim many dwarves.  Maybe soon dwarves will make enemies too and not just friends.  

DF is just a game, but it's a remarkable game for how much it simulates reality.  I wonder how other people play, whether they screw with things or cheat or actually try to make cool stuff.

SO...

Hitler could be analogous to some kind of DF player?  I bet anybody could.

[McDoomhammer]

"NOW we see the violence inherent in the system!  Come and see the violence inherent in the system!  Help help I'm being repressed *smack*"

-Urist Breakdoors, en route to the dwarven justice room.

Earthquake beat me to it, but it's conflict that pushes us to change- that does not necessarily have to mean war.

[Vactor]

I fail to see how DF has more violent/offensive/desentisizing content from any rts/mmo/fps/rpg out there.  Take a rpg, um diablo 2: you run around slaughtering thousands of imaginary 'living things.'

or is it that a kitten or a child dwarf can die, what is the difference between a dwarf child and a goblin from the point of view of the player? they are both imaginary 'living things.' neither are sentient, they are both less than one actual year old, the differences is only in what the game suggests it should be.

is it that you can poke an eye out? the gruesome ways someone can die? what about mortal kombat fatalities.  I know in SWG as a bounty hunter i was shooting people in the eye left and right.

There is a very fine line between an MMO and a genocide simulator.

Now I enjoy playing all of these types of games, and Dwarf Fortress is on the tame end of things from where I sit, the level of violence is entirely in your imagination. Nobody's eye actually got torn out, I don't see an actual eye laying on the ground of my computer room,  a bit of text has simply changed color.

I would go so far as to say horror movies are way beyond anything DF throws at me.

*******************************

second topic-

I also disagree on the topic of economic well being as a benefit of war.  This was only true when economies grew extremely slowly, (less than 1% anually) and the only way to get rich within your lifetime was to steal it from others.  In the modern age where our economies grow around 7% anually, you have to be very greedy to not be satisfied with how rich you can get in a lifetime.

Innovations will happen regardless of wartime, as long as someone can become wealthy because of it.  People have been conditioned to think that the modern Industrial Military Complex is a requirement for advancement.

[/rant]