Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dirst]

Can you make Legends Mode accessible from within Dwarf Mode or Adventure Mode, so you don't have to abandon fort to see it?

It's probably legitimate to have some kind of restricted mode, but being able to see everything would spoil stuff, including outside threats to your fortress, vampires and whatever else.

Worth noting that we'll now be able to ask the liaison about what's going on in the outside world, so that's one step forward to that end ^^

A new restricted Legends mode becomes available, but only while the Liaison is there.

"Sigh... now, the Clutch of Sweaty Belts was founded in Granite of 180.  Its founder, Urist McHistoricalLeaderDude, had eighty-seven kills.  Why am I telling you all of this anyway?  I want to go home!"

Not sure what Toady really has in mind for the restricted Legends, but I hope it limits you to what your Dwarves know.

[misko27]

I know Toady didn't plan it so that it released after I finally finish school for the year, but I like to think he did.

You know what I'm looking forward too? Everything. Not even going to qualify that statement.

[EnigmaticHat]

I hope we keep plump helmets due to them being a fixture of the game('s silly mythology).

[HooliganintheFort]

When we retire our forts and come back in adventure mode to massacre the inhabitants.  Will your fort's military respond instead of the entire fort coming for you? Some of us want to see a dwarf hammer lord come at us in full steel while we are trying to dodge crossbow fire from our former dwarves.

Also is it possible to retire your fort during a siege? Then come back later in adv. mode to take on the FB or goblins trying to siege your fort?

[Putnam]

I'd assume you succumb to the invasion just as you do when you try to abandon in the current version.

[CaptainMcClellan]

This might be a stupid/already asked question, but will NPCs maintain relationships with family/friends that have become werebeasts or night trolls? Further, will they react negatively if you slay their werebeast brother/sister/whatever? Or are all NPCs automatically set to regard them as dead when they become a creature? I guess, what I'm trying to ask is if its possible for a still human family member to still have a positive relationship with a relative that has been turned into a creature, and if so will they aid or attempt to avenge them? If not, would that be something you'd consider implementing or would it just make quests become a never-ending visit from logic hell for player and coder both?

( I ask because I like the idea of a family still loving their relative, and their relative specifically not attacking them despite the monstrous form. However, this would/should be a rare occurrence. It just adds more of a story-feel to it. Makes adventure mode feel more like a piece of literature.)

[King Mir]

This might be a stupid/already asked question, but will NPCs maintain relationships with family/friends that have become werebeasts or night trolls? Further, will they react negatively if you slay their werebeast brother/sister/whatever? Or are all NPCs automatically set to regard them as dead when they become a creature? I guess, what I'm trying to ask is if its possible for a still human family member to still have a positive relationship with a relative that has been turned into a creature, and if so will they aid or attempt to avenge them? If not, would that be something you'd consider implementing or would it just make quests become a never-ending visit from logic hell for player and coder both?

( I ask because I like the idea of a family still loving their relative, and their relative specifically not attacking them despite the monstrous form. However, this would/should be a rare occurrence. It just adds more of a story-feel to it. Makes adventure mode feel more like a piece of literature.)

I get the sense that ware-beasts are still considered relatives for grieving purposes, meaning that they cause negative reactions when the creature dies, not when they become infected. But warebeasts are still exiled from town, and there are no special interactions between them and anyone else who might be a friend or family.

[Dirst]

This might be a stupid/already asked question, but will NPCs maintain relationships with family/friends that have become werebeasts or night trolls? Further, will they react negatively if you slay their werebeast brother/sister/whatever? Or are all NPCs automatically set to regard them as dead when they become a creature? I guess, what I'm trying to ask is if its possible for a still human family member to still have a positive relationship with a relative that has been turned into a creature, and if so will they aid or attempt to avenge them? If not, would that be something you'd consider implementing or would it just make quests become a never-ending visit from logic hell for player and coder both?

( I ask because I like the idea of a family still loving their relative, and their relative specifically not attacking them despite the monstrous form. However, this would/should be a rare occurrence. It just adds more of a story-feel to it. Makes adventure mode feel more like a piece of literature.)

I get the sense that ware-beasts are still considered relatives for grieving purposes, meaning that they cause negative reactions when the creature dies, not when they become infected. But warebeasts are still exiled from town, and there are no special interactions between them and anyone else who might be a friend or family.

To bring in a common thematic element to the whole he's-a-monster-but-I-love-him story: Toady, are there plans to lift curses?  I'm curious if the curse itself will come with some tags that describe how to reverse it, some new interaction removes curses by class, or one needs to cobble together different effects that undo each tag change.

[Knight Otu]

To bring in a common thematic element to the whole he's-a-monster-but-I-love-him story: Toady, are there plans to lift curses?  I'm curious if the curse itself will come with some tags that describe how to reverse it, some new interaction removes curses by class, or one needs to cobble together different effects that undo each tag change.

It'll eventually be possible to lift curses, especially since that tends to happen with curses in stories. How the mechanics work out can't really be said until Toady goes to work on lifting curses (which I would not expect to happen once Toady goes to work on night creatures again). Some quotes from DF Talks (there's probably some stuff in this thread as well - I sort of remember a quote that essentially said that what happens in stories is fair game):

Rainseeker:   Now can that be cured, is there a method to cure these things?
Toady:   We haven't really gotten to curing curses. It's basically ... if you want to be a grave robber then you get what's coming to, although it's certainly fair - especially if you want to have an adventure that lasts awhile - to be able to deal with stuff like this; but we're probably not going to do it at first, you'll probably just have to deal. And there are some other things we were thinking of doing, we don't need to spoil everything for the moment. So that's mummies and that's what we're on now.

ThreeToe:   Okay, so now the second question is, 'Is there a possibility that we see these gods manifest themselves in a more physical form, and possibly playing a more influential role, such as maybe providing their power to boost the harvesting of crops, or removing curses, or controlling the elements.' These are the gods that we talked about on another Dwarf Fortress Talk.
Toady:   I'm not sure when this question was asked, it was one of the older ones, and I'm not sure if they knew at the time that gods were cursing people. Now that the gods curse people ... maybe that's why it came up, because they asked if the gods are going to be removing curses, well, they're adding curses, so there's nothing to say that there's not going to be ways for people to, kind of, redeem themselves after they've despoiled temples, and that kind of thing, or having the gods even fight with each other over who gets redeemed and who gets cursed, and all that kind of thing.

Edit: The quote I was thinking of was in the previous thread:

Will curses eventually be developed in a way that Adventurers will be able to cure an intelligent creature cursed into an animal form with something as mundane and simple as a kiss or hug?

Similarly, will there be a chance for dwarves in Fortress Mode to encounter a talking cursed creature and the player be given the option to lead their dwarves to find a cure for it... with cured being either joining the fort or giving them some sort of reward?

Whatever happens in fairy tales is fair.  I have no idea what or when though.

Also, some of ThreeToe's stories, like Curse of the Cyclops deal with curses and how to (not) lift them.

[Spectre Incarnate]

Now that we have real world fruits, etc, what will happen to the other ones (aside from the underground crops) which were basically analogs to real world crops? Like will bloated tubers become potatoes or something?

That's an open question.  My thought was to scrap them, since the real-world ones are more interesting and I want to use that stronger diverse base of mechanics and potential mechanics as a place to generate random ones from eventually.  Generated plants can have more intricate ties to generated mythology than the made-up plants without constraining the game, I think, and it allows for more possibilities (and our made-up plants are crappy enough that they could all have easily been generated without decreasing the quality at all...).

All the same, they could end up dying a slow lingering death instead, and some might survive indefinitely.

Real world plants are more interesting?? The classics are crappy?? You've got to be kidding me.

The fantastical plants, both the underground plump helmets, pig tail, quarry bushes, sweet pods, and other such things, as well as the aboveground ones like bloated tubers, prickle berries, sun berries, rat weed, etc... are a piece of Dwarf Fortress culture and myth. They're not a bug. They're not crappy. And regardess of how easy they were to make or to replace and regardless of whether or not they have real world counterparts or were imagined in under five minutes, they are a historical feature of the game which has been established in the minds of all players since the beginning. They make up a huge majority of countless narratives. Just look at my recent signature. And to anyone that says it could have been any plant that Stodir fell in love with or that I could just mod them back in, then you miss the point entirely. To you, it may be simple code. To us... if you don't know the answer to this, blood god save you.

Just saying they're crappy is pretty disrespectful to the community. You're basically telling us as players what we should and should not like. My personal preferences say otherwise. "Likes bloated tubers for their CULTURAL CHARM". You can think real world plants are more interesting if you want to, but for me it's one of the main reasons Gnomoria and other DF clones bore me to tears compared to the beauty and personality that is Dwarf Fortress. You are seriously barking up the wrong tower cap if you think we'll have a party at stone table while watching a big part of the game's heritage and personality go up in magma smoke because you suddenly decided all the classic plants are crappy.

Please, for the love of all things dwarven, leave the original base plants and trees in and enhance them if needed. You can add real world and procedurally generated plants also, but please do not remove what has been happily drilled into our skulls for the last decade. This would be the same as removing goblins or strange moods or carp. The game is a tool for making wonderful narratives, but the game also *is* a narrative. That's why it's in the Museum of Modern Art, after all.

I blame the humans. Them and their dumb real world plants can go to HFS! The day I have to mod the classic plants back into my game just to have them again will be a fell day indeed! 

[Scotsmen]

Well said. However, I have a better idea. Have a option (maybe in one of the init files) that allows the player to choose one of three "play types". One will be the classic DF fantasy stuff, with dwarves, elves, goblins, plump helmets, etc. etc. Another will be real world stuff: rather than dwarves, you play as humans in medieval times, fantasy things do not exist, blah blah blah. That one I don't particularly want to see, but you seem to think real world stuff is "more interesting" anyway. And finally, the one that would be completely randomized. Randomized per-world plants, creatures, everything. Basically, Spore but DF. Oh, and dwarves would be some for randomized monstrosity as well. That would be the "hard mode", as every time you play you would have to basically re-learn the game. I would love to see that.

I basically just wrote this as I thought it, so if it comes across as dissing Toady or anyone else, I'm sorry.

[nomoetoe]

Well said. However, I have a better idea. Have a option (maybe in one of the init files) that allows the player to choose one of three "play types". One will be the classic DF fantasy stuff, with dwarves, elves, goblins, plump helmets, etc. etc. Another will be real world stuff: rather than dwarves, you play as humans in medieval times, fantasy things do not exist, blah blah blah. That one I don't particularly want to see, but you seem to think real world stuff is "more interesting" anyway. And finally, the one that would be completely randomized. Randomized per-world plants, creatures, everything. Basically, Spore but DF. Oh, and dwarves would be some for randomized monstrosity as well. That would be the "hard mode", as every time you play you would have to basically re-learn the game. I would love to see that.

I basically just wrote this as I thought it, so if it comes across as dissing Toady or anyone else, I'm sorry.

You diabolical dastardly demonic devious delicious delectable dependable desirable dedicated devoted divine DEMON!

Nah ye wrote your thoughts and they don't seem dissy, at least in my opinion. c:

[DG]

I haven't seen much arguing against the crappiness of the DF plants, but I have seen many share with us their emotional attachment to the current names.

[Vattic]

Do you plan to try and keep up with the suggestions board now you've cleared the backlog?

[Witty]

Are the dwarven hill and deep sites tied with the CAVE_DETAILED tag, or will they have their own, separate tags?