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[Sizik]

Speaking of dyes, When converting from a color token to the nearest display color, does the game use the default RGB values for the comparison, or does it check the ones defined in colors.txt? Basically, can the displayed color of dyed/colored objects change based on the user's color palette?

[Mr S]

Let's see, what do we have to work with...

Animal training: Check
Hugging: Check
Beard, and lots of it: Check

 

I will henceforth be adventuring as Urist "Grizzly" McAdams.

[Vattic]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Carotenoids and anthrocyanins make poor quality dyes, because they break down on exposure to UV light sources, and or, react with changes in pH in the environment.

Plant pigments that hold up well usually have either an amine group bond, an aromatic ring structure, or have compound double bonds in the molecular structure.

Pigments that break down on exposure to UV are said to be non-lightfast (carotenoids are in this category), or they react strongly to changes in pH (anthrocyanins are in this category) and are said to not be wash-fast.

If you look at indigo dye, for instance, it is a dimeric molecule of two indigotin monomers that come together with a strong double bond and two hydrogen bonds, and each monomer is itself made with a strong aromatic ring structure.


The dimeric complex is remarkably stable, and requires a strong alkaline solvent to break it down into the monomers again in order for it to be absorbed into the matrix of plant fibers. Once in, the very stable molecules strongly resist UV degredation (ring structure harmonics), and strongly resist changes in pH (double bond, and hydrogen bond structure between monomers, nonpolar molecule with high weight.)

The production of complex molecules like that is very uncommon, which is why quality dyestuffs commanded high prices. Many dyes of antiquity were actually metallic salt complexes that used mordants to help the dyestuffs cling to the fiber, and used strong ionic bonds to resist chemical degradation.

The ancient egyptians are often given credit for independent discovery of mordanting with metallic salts to improve natural dyestuffs, and to create synthetic dyestuffs, but china also discovered this independently.

The limited selection of quality dyestuffs is one of the reasons why "Royal purple" was "royal"-- Purple was a very difficult color to produce, because quality blue was hard to produce in antiquity. (indigo is just about the ONLY plant based blue that is both wash and lightfast.) Royal purple was produced from the extractives of a special variety of shellfish, and required special processing. It wasnt until the industrial revolution that the color Mauve was produced from coaltar, (as are all other synthetic analine dyes) that purple was commercially available in great quantities.

I can give you a short list of classical dyestuffs and even some recipies, as antique dye chemistry is a bit of a hobby of mine.

Dyeing and dye chemistry is also a hobby of mine, and as we speak I am procrastinating on working on my organic chemistry term paper on the synthesis and properties of 6,6' dibromoindigo (Tyrian Purple), so I feel I have a bit to contribute.
Long winded organic chemistry spoilered:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think you are incorrectly describing the dyeing process used for indigo, although I suppose there could be more than one process.  The process I have read for inidigoid dyes is to make them soluble not by using a strong base to break them into monomers, but to use a reducing agent (ammonia or zinc in european indigo, bacterially generated H2 in Japanese indigo, lead or tin (language is ambiguous, both work) in Tyrian Purple) to protonate the carbonyl to a carboxyl, giving you leucoindigo, which is colorless and soluble:
Part of the reason for indigo's extreme insolubility and intense absorption at such a long wavelength given it's small conjugated system is that the carbonyl oxygen and the amine's H of the two monomers hydrogen bond, locking the molecule into a rigidly planar shape and interfering with potential hydrogen bonding with a solvent (you mentioned this in your comment, I know), and reducing the carbonyl to a carboxyl makes it impossible for the molecule to hydrogen bond in a satisfactorily planar way, so conjugation is broken, color is lost, and solvation in water is vastly improved.Since conjugation is so stabilizing, leucoindigo is not stable on contact with oxygen, and will immediately convert back to indigo upon removal from the dye bath, but at this point it has penetrated the fiber and is now indelibly fixed.

For more information about dibromoindigo chemistry and history, and a brief but informative survey of indigoid chemistry, my current favorite is probably "Tyrian Purple: 6, 6’-Dibromoindigo and Related Compounds" by Chris Cooksey in Molecules, 2001.  Cooksey also happens to be my favorite author about Orchil, despite his website being about as user friendly as dwarf fortress.

As for other purples, another commenter mentioned lichen purples used to extend dibromoindigo dyes.  He was referring to orchil, which is a deep reddish magenta dye produced by soaking certain lichens in ammonia (traditionally obtained from stale urine) for several months with frequent incorporation of oxygen. Orchil is a substantive dye, meaning it does not require a metal salt as a mordant, rather it directly bonds to the fiber.  This makes it somewhat selective in fiber, only bonding well to protein based fibers like wool and silk, as well as leather, feathers, and to a lesser extent bone, but due to the strong bond it is very washfast.  Unfortunately, it is not light fast, and is known for fading dramatically with excessive exposure.  It was used to extend Tyrian purple as it is much cheaper, has a similar color, is intense and solid (Tyrian purple had a tendency to be blotchy), and the lightfast Tyrian purple would help disguise the fading of the orchil.

True orchil is made from Rocella tinctoria, but any number of lichens can be used to produce similar dyes, which have been called cudbear, litmus, and a handful of other things.  I have actually made purple dye from at least 3 species, Umbillicaria spp., Evernia prunastri, and a Xanthoparmelia.  I got an intense blood-magenta from Umbillicaria, a not very saturated delicate gem tone violet from Evernia, which has since faded to nearly grey, and a slightly dirty/brownish rose from the Xanthoparmelia.  Here's a photo of a few dye samples, spoilered for size:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The three socks at top are Umbillicaria, and closely approximate the color of both true Orchil and Tyrian purple (it was more of a wine red with magenta hues than a true purple, and was sometimes described as "ox blood").
The sock underneath is Evernia, heavily faded.  It was never all that saturated, but it was better.  The Umbillicaria is the same age, and while the fabric is heavily worn and holes are developing, the color is essentially as good as new.  Of course, these are socks, so they don't get as much sun as would, say, a hat. 
The rosey purple yarn sample on the white bone is from Xanthoparmelia treated with ammonia, while the yellow sample on the dark brown rib is also Xanthoparmelia, but boiled in water with alum mordanted wool.  Excess boiling gives more of a green brown tinge. 
The bones were soaked in a tannin solution prepared from oak galls, and the brown rib is just that, while the glossy blue/black scapula was subjected to a further treatment with an iron mordant (I used rust and vinegar).

Of course, the colors look much better in person in full sun than in my kitchen on a cell phone camera.

(I expect elves to REALLY hate the color purple. Made either from boiling their beloved trees, or from boiling poor innocent little ocean snails. I expect them to really like indigo blue, tannin based browns (from leaves and acorn hulls), and lichen based yellows, because they are atrocity and cruelty free.

So actually, with orchil, you can get good lichen based purples for the elves, as well as various reds and even a pale baby blue from Xanthoria (treat it like an orchil dye, but exposure to UV soon after removal from dye bath changes it from rose pink to pale blue), though they won't be extraordinarily lightfast  Since they only work on protein fibers, you won't be able to dye elven rope reed, but it really seems that they ought to prefer wool or spider silk, nonviolently harvested from beloved animal companions.  However, lichen dyes are usually by no means elf friendly.  Rock lichens tend to provide more intense dyes so are the most used, but are the slowest growing and harvesting usually means scraping the rock clean of lichen.  Overharvesting of dye lichens was typical wherever they were widely used, and the decline in abundance of dye species with overharvesting was noted even in ancient times (I'll have to look for the citation to that, but I know I read it somewhere).  I actually had an old hippie lady who was a mushroom dye enthusiast give me a very angry lecture on Destroying the Environment and Murdering Innocent Lichens and pretty much shun me from her table after I tried to show her my spiffy purple socks (this was at a mushroom fair, and she was an elf if I've ever met one).

You can produce elf friendly lichen purples, by using tree growing species and gathering them from the ground or from fallen dead branches (I do this because it is a lot less work than scraping rocks, aside from being less destructive).  Unfortunately, this limits the intensity of color that you can achieve.  In my dye samples shown, the first and most intense one was rock growing, while the other, less saturated (and lightfast) were quick growing bark dwellers.  You can get some pretty good yellows from found lichens, though.  Usnea will give various yellows potentially ranging from clear golden to sherbertey orange when boiled gently in water with optional alum mordant (overheating tends to brown the colors), and Xanthoparmelia gives a nice green-gold with a pleasant sheen and softness when treated the same (as opposed to the rose purple from the ammonia method).

To finally actually get to a more or less relevant topic, here are the colors you can achieve from plants currently in the game, with sources for most colors:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

TL;DR: most of the dyes available are some variant of yellow-beige-orange with alum and green-grey with iron, which is pretty typical of any given sampling of plants (that's by far the most common category of vegetable dye).  The brightest yellows are probably from pomegranate husks, mango leaves, and chicory, with alum for all of those, the best green is probably from Chicory with iron, but I know you can get a good green from fennel greens with iron, so I might have to look into relatives of fennel, like carrot greens with iron.  The best orangey color is probably from persimmon, but it's not very bright.  Perhaps carrots or carotenoid rich yams might be made to work.  With a good red, orange could be made from a bright yellow, but aside from beets, I can't think of any in the real world plants we currently have on hand.  Blues can be gotten from black beans, if those can be included under the category of string bean (same species), but we don't have any indigotin sources in game yet, and I think our only good blue is dimple cups.  Purples can be gotten from beets, which doesn't work well, or from lichens which haven't been added, or snails which haven't been added.


Banana sap (and presumably Abaca) - brownish to reddish, from tannins.  The Fe'i banana is apparently used for a reddish dye.  One source suggested it is useful as a mordant for other dyes, which is typical of tannins, though of course they also contribute their own color.

Coffee - browns, from tannins

Guava - pale rosey brown with alum or no mordant, slate grey with iron mordant (as with any iron mordant, this will be destructive to protein based fibers, making them scratchy and brittle) [source]

Rambutan - can be used to dye fiber a sunny yellow, using alum I assume [source].  Iron will give greys or greens.  "Young shoots are used to dye yellow silk to green. A dye     called ayer banyar, made from rambutan leaves and fruits     and combined with other ingredients, is used for dyeing red     silk black." [source]

Tea - has been popularly used to make reddish browns, especially for making paper look old.  Iron mordant will give dark greys

Avocado - beige yellow from fruit skins, beige rose from pits, no mordant [source] or pale rose pink, no mordant [source]

Pomegranate fruit husk and pith - beige brown unmordanted, intense mustard yellow with alum [source], as usual with yellow dyes, darker greys can be achieved with iron, at the possible expense of fabric softness

Cherry bark, also apple, apricot, peach, plum, and any other fruit tree in the rose family - creamy yellow to rose pink with alum or no mordant [source], greys and grey greens from iron

Persimmons (unripe fruit) - somewhat brownish earth toned rose [source] probably grey with iron

Walnut - a very deep intense chocolatey brown, very wash and light fast [source]  This dye was widely used because it fixes very well to most fibers and has the benefit of being somewhat toxic, so it inhibits insect damage (though not at all dangerous to wear)

Black Beans (not mentioned, but a cultivar of Phaseolus vulgaris) - a nice strong blue, like a slightly less intense indigo, alum mordant [source]

Beets - magenta red, more or less what you would expect from the color of beet juices, mordanted with vinegar.  Color can be adjusted by varying pH, but the solution must be acidic for the dye to bind to the fiber. [source] Presumably you could also vary the color by starting with differently colored beet cultivars.  I have my doubts as to the light fastness of this dye, as according to wikipedia, betanin, the primarily pigment molecule, "degrades when subjected to light, heat, and oxygen" [source]

Carrots - I don't know about orange carrots, I don't think it works well, but apparently purple carrots give a very nicely colored purple dye [source], but I have strong suspicions about wash and lightfastness

Chicory - mustard yellow (alum), yellow-green (copper), bright yellow (tin), forest green (iron), creamy biege (no mordant).  There are reports of a blue dye from the leaves, but this seems to be untrue. [source]

Onions - give a nice warm orange yellow from the skins

That's all the new plants, I haven't looked through the old plant list, but I know it has some worth mentioning, like an intense yellow from mango leaves and deep browns and blacks from oaks.  I'm sure I missed lots of stuff too.

I've been thinking I should go to the suggestions subforum and start or revive a thread on dyes, if anyone is interested.

Also, since linseed and it's oil has been added, all we need for oil paints is a job to mix powdered pigment with oil (we might want to conveniently ignore any other binders or additives that might be desired in real paint, and maybe ignore the necessary boiling of the linseed oil (or maybe not)), and a job to paint something.  I know there have been lots of suggestion threads about paints, I might go pick one to necro.

Also, the sizes of text throughout my comment got all screwed up, and I can't seem to fix it by just selecting it all and setting it to a size.  Anyone know how to make that work?

I stripped all the font and size tags using regular expressions which makes it more readable. A very interesting post. I've been tempted to make a suggestion thread, but decided I didn't know enough to merit it. I guess the question is how simplified the system should be. For my planned mod I was just going to have it so you mix dyes before applying them instead of applying multiple dyes, and similar for mordants. This was mostly to have it work within the current dye system, but also to make it simpler to use. There is a lot of scope for complexity. With smells being added to the game having the leather and dye district stink would be nice.

[hermes]

Toady One Ah, sorry about that, I was... delayed.

Anyone else think of Gandalf?  *hits F5 10 more times*

[wierd]

My bad about prussian blue synthesis--

should be this, for the original diesbach process.

Prussian blue was manufactured first in Germany by a color maker named
  Diesbach. The process included heating equal amounts of saltpeter (KNO.3)
  and potassium tartrate in a red-hot crucible. Dry powdered cattle blood
  was added and the mixture was heated to an incadescence then washed with
  water and treated with a solution of alum [K.2SO.4; Al.2(So.4).3 x24H.2O]
  and ferrous sulfate. A green precipitate was formed which turned blue with
  the addition of hydrochloric acid.

This was in the early 1700s, btw.

The reagents involved SHOULD be available to dwarves in fairly copious abundance. Potasium tartrate (The diesbach process does not look like it will be adversely impacted by the use of potassium bistartrate instead of real potassium tartrate) is also known as "Wine diamonds" and also as "tartar", and is commonly found in wine casks and bottles.

A process to refine pure tartaric acid from this (tartar) was known as early as 800AD, according to wikipedia.

Similarly, the synthesis of muriatic acid (HCl) and tincture of vitriol (sulfuric acid) were known in the target timeperiod as well. Muriatic acid is derived from heating table salt in sulfuric acid, and bubbling the resulting gas through distilled water.  Other than the non-obviousness of producing a complex blue pigment from the reduced iron and hydrocyanic acids produced by burning bloodmeal via this process, there isn't a technical reason why dwarven alchemists could not produce it.

One caveat of allowing it to be produced by an alchemist, is that it is also the foundation of one of the earliest forms of photography; the cyanotype process. (VERY SLOW exposure. requires very bright light, and absolutely motionless subjects. Produces a "Negative" image.)

The use as a photosensitizer for photographic medium only came about because of already existing work surrounding the emerging field of modern chemistry at that time, however-- so it is unlikely that dwarven alchemists would make the connection between potassium prussiate, light exposure, and the production of iron hexaferrocyanate (prussian blue) on exposure to an iron salt and oxygen necessary for the cyanotype process to occur. (IIRC, the deguerrotype, using mercury vapor development on sensitized glass panes, was known before the cyanotype process was invented.) As such, that little tidbit can probably be safely ignored.


It would *FINALLY* give a practical use for all those barrels of blood those stupid human merchants keep shipping.

[PeridexisErrant]

Anyone else think of Gandalf?

"A release is never late, nor is it early; it arrives precisely when I mean it to."
       --Definitely not ToadyOne

[Verdant_Squire]

Now that town guards have actual, important tasks, will we be unable to go to random forts and recruit all the guards? If so, will we be able to recruit actual warriors in taverns to make up for this?

[Zavvnao]

That line of thinking is making me think how situations like the Hunger Games or Dangan Ronpa could be set up for some reason.

[Rockphed]

Now that town guards have actual, important tasks, will we be unable to go to random forts and recruit all the guards? If so, will we be able to recruit actual warriors in taverns to make up for this?

Warriors in fake taverns is in for this release.  I don't know about guards resisting recruitment if they have duties.  In past versions, any leadership position stopped dwarves from joining up.

On the topic of the latest dev-log, is that the last of the 6 items before debugging?

[Tawa]

So, how does dialogue work now? You said that you obliterated the current speech system in favor of something else; you said you didn't like dialogue trees, either. What is the current decision about conversation?

[PeridexisErrant]

On the topic of the latest dev-log, is that the last of the 6 items before debugging?

In terms of these finalizations I've been doing, there are six left:

• Doing a test run with a dwarven adventurer from depot to depot through a tunnel,
• the liaison commenting on the world situation in dwarf mode,
• that information screen I mentioned in the FotF thread not too long ago,
• the plant list,
• some checks with guards/intruder, and
• some sort of nod to vampires/gods ruling civilizations (since it gets stranger and stranger for them to be there without any comment at all).

Then we'll have a steaming pile of game that needs to be debugged and otherwise made playable.

That's certainly the message I read!

[HmH]

"A release is never late, nor is it early; it arrives precisely when I mean it to."
       --Definitely not ToadyOne

Sigged.

[Knight Otu]

So, how does dialogue work now? You said that you obliterated the current speech system in favor of something else; you said you didn't like dialogue trees, either. What is the current decision about conversation?

Toady talked about the workings of the new conversation system in DF Talk, spoilered below. I know there are a few more places where he's talked about the system, though.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rainseeker:    So, it seems like Dwarf Fortress is getting to the point where you can talk to NPCs, and characters, and interact with them, and coerce them into punching goblins with you! How is that going to work?
Toady:    Yeah, it's a party, it's a party where you have goblin-beating time with your little friends and drunks.
Capntastic:    And everybody's invited! (laughter)
Toady:    Yeah they're not friendly, so we don't feel sorry for the goblins. And we've got drunks back in little fake taverns again so you can kind of get the right people for the job. So you can talk to people, and, and people, there's, the overall situation with the town which is something you can become aware of by talking to them. And when you talk to them now, it works the same way, the same sort of clunky, K, move over the cursor thing, and press enter. But then you get a topic list which is, you can do the kind of things you did before, where you greet people. And when you greet them now it gives you, instead of popping you to a screen where it gives you a list of options and sort of the summary of what's been said, it gives you a list of options but more like you're attacking somebody. Like, like there's a list of options and you still see all of the surroundings. And you select an option, and then it gives you an action, again analogous to moving or attacking, and then when your action's time has ran out, the timer for it, you will say what you wanted to say and it pops up in the announcement queue.
Rainseeker:    It's because you're attacking them psychologically?
Toady:    Yes, this is all psychological warfare now. And they'll say something back, if they understand the context of the conversation that they're in. And so they, on their turn, if they don't have something more important to do (like running off and fighting or something), then they will look at the conversations there and decide what to say to who, and what to talk about then initiate an action of their own and it will come back to the, to the announcement log. Now, to make this not totally annoying, when you talk to somebody, you go into a kind of a waiting mode, so that you anticipate that you're going to be replied to, and then it just waits for the reply to come in. So you don't have to like, press period a bunch of times to wait for the guy to say something.
Rainseeker:    Especially if he's very slow-witted.
Toady:    Yes, yes or if he's, but it runs a timer carefully though so if the guy's off doing something else it won't wait forever and lock up the game. At least, hopefully it works right. So they'll reply for you and that creates the context for the conversation. It kind of operates in pairs for the most part where you say something and then the reply is expected, and then the conversation goes back to being neutral again, where no one's in the driver's seat and the next person to talk kind of creates another pair of things that is said. And that can change the context of the conversation. And when someone says something it assigns numbers, so that it will put a little 1 next to what they said, and then it will go, 1 will appear on them, so that you can see who said what. So if you're in a crowd and someone shouts something, it'll pop up and you can see what they said or who said it. And kind of keep control of who's saying what in the conversation that way. Also when you talk to people you can look back at the log of what's been said and it shows you automatically what's been said so that you don't get lost. And so you can bring the conversation, you can say "what's going on now?" and they'll tell you about an occupation, or if an army is coming, or other things that have happened, like they heard there was a fist fight where a bunch of goblins got beat to death or whatever.
Toady:    So they tell you about these things and then you, when you're in the context of talking about the insurrection, that's when you can drop a line about, well hey let's go do something about this. And right now the bar to entry, just to keep the game going, the bar to entry's pretty low, (laughter) in terms of hey let's go do something about this and then you, you can get a companion. And the companion, like before, they just travel around with you and all that kind of thing. But now it's an agreement is formed, where there's some understanding that underlies every single thing about companionship in the game now about why they're with you, and kind of how long they're going to be with you, and then they can use that information to decide whether or not you're actually furthering this common goal, you know if you just want to wander off out of town with someone who's supposed to be helping you with the insurrection that companionship isn't going to last very long and the person will probably just leave while you sleep or whatever.

 And that's probably all going to be in with the release. I mean, a lot of that already is in, but I haven't made the companions leave yet, but that's very likely to go in so you can't abuse your privileges. But there's also standard companionships, the bar is good for things like that. These fake bars. I just need to aggregate where to find these people so I put them in these fake taverns, this isn't the tavern release by any stretch of the imagination but there are drunks and mercenary type adventurer people. And all the scouts and monster hunter type people from world gen all hang out in these fake taverns now, just sitting there. And so you can go and talk to them. So you can have people travel with you in the standard, lead me to glory and death type way, in which case they don't have a very high standard for continuing the partnership. I mean guess I could make them get bored if you don't do anything for a week or something and then split.

[smjjames]

So, how does dialogue work now? You said that you obliterated the current speech system in favor of something else; you said you didn't like dialogue trees, either. What is the current decision about conversation?

Toady talked about the workings of the new conversation system in DF Talk, spoilered below. I know there are a few more places where he's talked about the system, though.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rainseeker:    So, it seems like Dwarf Fortress is getting to the point where you can talk to NPCs, and characters, and interact with them, and coerce them into punching goblins with you! How is that going to work?
Toady:    Yeah, it's a party, it's a party where you have goblin-beating time with your little friends and drunks.
Capntastic:    And everybody's invited! (laughter)
Toady:    Yeah they're not friendly, so we don't feel sorry for the goblins. And we've got drunks back in little fake taverns again so you can kind of get the right people for the job. So you can talk to people, and, and people, there's, the overall situation with the town which is something you can become aware of by talking to them. And when you talk to them now, it works the same way, the same sort of clunky, K, move over the cursor thing, and press enter. But then you get a topic list which is, you can do the kind of things you did before, where you greet people. And when you greet them now it gives you, instead of popping you to a screen where it gives you a list of options and sort of the summary of what's been said, it gives you a list of options but more like you're attacking somebody. Like, like there's a list of options and you still see all of the surroundings. And you select an option, and then it gives you an action, again analogous to moving or attacking, and then when your action's time has ran out, the timer for it, you will say what you wanted to say and it pops up in the announcement queue.
Rainseeker:    It's because you're attacking them psychologically?
Toady:    Yes, this is all psychological warfare now. And they'll say something back, if they understand the context of the conversation that they're in. And so they, on their turn, if they don't have something more important to do (like running off and fighting or something), then they will look at the conversations there and decide what to say to who, and what to talk about then initiate an action of their own and it will come back to the, to the announcement log. Now, to make this not totally annoying, when you talk to somebody, you go into a kind of a waiting mode, so that you anticipate that you're going to be replied to, and then it just waits for the reply to come in. So you don't have to like, press period a bunch of times to wait for the guy to say something.
Rainseeker:    Especially if he's very slow-witted.
Toady:    Yes, yes or if he's, but it runs a timer carefully though so if the guy's off doing something else it won't wait forever and lock up the game. At least, hopefully it works right. So they'll reply for you and that creates the context for the conversation. It kind of operates in pairs for the most part where you say something and then the reply is expected, and then the conversation goes back to being neutral again, where no one's in the driver's seat and the next person to talk kind of creates another pair of things that is said. And that can change the context of the conversation. And when someone says something it assigns numbers, so that it will put a little 1 next to what they said, and then it will go, 1 will appear on them, so that you can see who said what. So if you're in a crowd and someone shouts something, it'll pop up and you can see what they said or who said it. And kind of keep control of who's saying what in the conversation that way. Also when you talk to people you can look back at the log of what's been said and it shows you automatically what's been said so that you don't get lost. And so you can bring the conversation, you can say "what's going on now?" and they'll tell you about an occupation, or if an army is coming, or other things that have happened, like they heard there was a fist fight where a bunch of goblins got beat to death or whatever.
Toady:    So they tell you about these things and then you, when you're in the context of talking about the insurrection, that's when you can drop a line about, well hey let's go do something about this. And right now the bar to entry, just to keep the game going, the bar to entry's pretty low, (laughter) in terms of hey let's go do something about this and then you, you can get a companion. And the companion, like before, they just travel around with you and all that kind of thing. But now it's an agreement is formed, where there's some understanding that underlies every single thing about companionship in the game now about why they're with you, and kind of how long they're going to be with you, and then they can use that information to decide whether or not you're actually furthering this common goal, you know if you just want to wander off out of town with someone who's supposed to be helping you with the insurrection that companionship isn't going to last very long and the person will probably just leave while you sleep or whatever.

 And that's probably all going to be in with the release. I mean, a lot of that already is in, but I haven't made the companions leave yet, but that's very likely to go in so you can't abuse your privileges. But there's also standard companionships, the bar is good for things like that. These fake bars. I just need to aggregate where to find these people so I put them in these fake taverns, this isn't the tavern release by any stretch of the imagination but there are drunks and mercenary type adventurer people. And all the scouts and monster hunter type people from world gen all hang out in these fake taverns now, just sitting there. And so you can go and talk to them. So you can have people travel with you in the standard, lead me to glory and death type way, in which case they don't have a very high standard for continuing the partnership. I mean guess I could make them get bored if you don't do anything for a week or something and then split.

He has also talked about it in some FotF Q&As and devlog posts. You'll have to hunt down the relevant FotF replies as they are scattered about. I'm sure footkerchief, our local quote wizard, can find the ones that answer your question.

[Lolfail0009]

Footkerchief can summon relevant quotes with his/her/xer/their middle-click button.