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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3850945 times)

smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10050 on: April 06, 2014, 08:01:28 pm »

So far as I can see, many plants have an [EDIBLE_VERMIN] tag. Why are they classified as vermin?

I was wondering about that as well, I think it may have to do with them being eatable by vermin.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10051 on: April 06, 2014, 08:09:07 pm »

Shouldn't the pineapple 'tree' be more like 'shrub' since the plant isn't actually tree sized? Unless you don't have a category set for smaller plants or something.

Thats just a catagory, not just descrtive. You can define shrubs with with "tree" mechanics.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10052 on: April 06, 2014, 08:27:44 pm »

So far as I can see, many plants have an [EDIBLE_VERMIN] tag. Why are they classified as vermin?

I was wondering about that as well, I think it may have to do with them being eatable by vermin.

Yes.  It's a material definition tag that's been around for a while.
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CaptainArchmage

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10053 on: April 06, 2014, 09:22:49 pm »

All right, so just one or two more things left? Let's not go for any extended bugfixing this time please? It sounds like there aren't really crashes going on......
This time? Which time was there before?
I imagine he means the time before previous releases.

When DF2010 came out, there were a lot of legendary-level bugs, but some of us played it anyway. It was really part of the experience to find bugged out maps and explore them. Those who were bothered by the bugs kept playing 40d for a while.

I noticed the new drinks seem to be “beer” or “wine”, which are just fermented. Does that mean we’re going to be facing a distilling process to get whisky, vodka, brandy, and so on sooner than later?

I hope we can still get Swamp Whisky in the upcoming release. Major Failure will never feel the same again if it is not. It is part of this game’s history!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 09:30:07 pm by CaptainArchmage »
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10054 on: April 06, 2014, 11:32:55 pm »

@captianarchmage: There are a few ciders as well, which are fermented anyhow.
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10055 on: April 07, 2014, 02:07:29 am »

Actually, there is also double distillation, like for Cognac (which is one of the most famous Brandy).
But yeah, i would really like some *bronze alembic* or some ☼steel condensator☼.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10056 on: April 07, 2014, 02:40:29 am »

I wonder if we'll ever get an adventure mode quest where some dude tells you to go find his alembic.
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Zan Oltaridor

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10057 on: April 07, 2014, 06:20:08 am »

Can someone give me a brief list of the features that are included in the upcoming update? There is so much i read, and i dont really know what comes now in this update, and whats planned. Im a bit confused :D Would be much appreciated.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10058 on: April 07, 2014, 08:25:59 am »

Can someone give me a brief list of the features that are included in the upcoming update? There is so much i read, and i dont really know what comes now in this update, and whats planned. Im a bit confused :D Would be much appreciated.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vgy5h5tmWFZLqCJMYd1cbGG67SUCSIn30Y--DNymzdg/preview?sle=true
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10059 on: April 07, 2014, 08:28:30 am »

Are these finalized raws, or still subject to revision?

If it wasn't answered before, it definitely has been now:
[...] everything continues to be subject to change [...]

Oh the stews and roasts that will be created in my fortresses... :)  In looking through the raws for the new plants, I don't see any of them with this tag (the rocknuts->rocknut paste->rocknut oil reaction):

[MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:PRESS_LIQUID_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:OIL]

So, does this mean that the oil process is changing, or just that the new plants just aren't there yet?  Just curious if they are finalized for this release, or if I'm missing something else?

Some of the new crops have oils now (Toady just updated the files).  Still no oils for the garden plants e.g. peanuts, but that may still change.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 08:34:24 am by Footkerchief »
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wierd

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10060 on: April 07, 2014, 09:48:15 am »

whoof--- Durian wine? Yeowza.

I guess that's one way to keep the elven diplomats away... The smell would be horrendous!

OTOH, adding a speed boosting and sleep depriving syndrome to coffee products could have real applications now.
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10061 on: April 07, 2014, 10:02:09 am »

whoof--- Durian wine? Yeowza.
I guess that's one way to keep the elven diplomats away... The smell would be horrendous!
But if you keep them away, then how are you supposed to dump them naked in a pit with zombie whales? What would be the whole point of the game then? :P
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Talvieno

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10062 on: April 07, 2014, 11:14:39 am »

What would you say to us suggesting more realistic, more specific biomes, rather than "ANY_TEMPERATE" and "ANY_TROPICAL" for most of the new trees? I noticed the new "desert lime" is the only exception, with:
[BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL][BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL][BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
Are you planning on specifying more specific biome sets for all fruit trees? Most fruit trees don't do well in swamplands/marshlands/wetlands (inundating their roots with that much water eventually kills them), and I'm not entirely sure if you took that into account. Desert lime would be the most immediately obvious to exclude wetter biomes for, I suppose, but some of the other tree types have difficulty with it too.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 11:16:20 am by Talvieno »
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10063 on: April 07, 2014, 12:07:32 pm »

What would you say to us suggesting more realistic, more specific biomes, rather than "ANY_TEMPERATE" and "ANY_TROPICAL" for most of the new trees?

In general, community contributions to the raws are useful to the extent that they're 1) well organized and 2) reliably sourced. Uristocrat headed up a similar effort to gather information about material density -- those values eventually made it into the game.
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Snaake

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #10064 on: April 07, 2014, 12:56:05 pm »

I'm surprised there was only one post on GROWDUR missing completely, so far. I've been modding all my crops to have 3-season growdurs (for game balance, since food production is so easy) and all 4 season tags to simulate winter wheat etc. The idea is to plant each field only once per year and that the growth time is longer (3 seasons so there's 1 season to harvest/plant in). With all these new varieties, it would be better to organize winter varieties as a new crops too, though, if/when seasonality data is incorporated.

I was wondering about how will seeds, e.g. the new grains work? Does milling still produce a seed, or do you actually (realistically) mill the seeds for flour, and have to keep some to be able to plant the next crop? ... but then I noticed the comments in the raws:
Quote
*** ear is threshed to spikelets, milled down to flour
So apparently threshing will get more use. I guess it's still open whether it's the threshing or milling phase that will "produce" the seed stock for the next crop cycle. The first would be more realistic IMO (the most realistic being that there wouldn't be separate "seeds" and "grains"), but it's still an improvement regardless.

Another observation related to seeds/the new plants is that most new trees have GROWTH_HAS_SEED in the fruit growth; the exceptions have [GROWTH:SEED] or [GROWTH:NUT] sections, i.e. the final growth is just the seed or nut without any separate fruit around it. No crops have growths referring to seed production, so I guess they still produce seeds in the traditional manner, i.e. when eaten raw(?!), brewing or threshing (see above). An acceptable abstractions that dwarves never use up all the grains, I guess... unless they're cooking. However, many garden plants, e.g. artichokes, beets and cabbages are still missing any indication (that I can see) about where their seeds will appear from. Possibly if the last GROWTH is FLOWERS,  then after the GROWTH_TIMING on the flower ends (120k unnamed units it'll automatically produce a seed. I'd guess the units are ticks, since that would mean a fairly reasonable 0.3 years, with some extra time (until 200k) to harvest FRUITs, PODs etc., which apparently usually drop off after their GROWTH_TIMING ends. And presumably they rot or potentially freeze after that. Apparently tubers are not growths, but instead are the structural plant part, much like all crops are now.

Edit: This post originally (when first writing/before this edit) had 2 greened questions, but I reread Toady's update and he mentions he's still missing some variables, so I'm going to assume that either that's what's going on in the garden/crop files, or that my speculation regarding crop seed and garden plants' flowers is close to the truth :). So I did a bit of a fairly extensive rewrite to the post so it's more about my observations on the raws.

P.S. I also just realized that I hope there will be some improvement to the planting interface on farm plots, or that list is going to be loooong especially with crops, potentially also with gardens (assuming they'll have a different "building", but be otherwise similar). E.g. a filter to only show plants which you have seeds of, or only plants that are capable of growing in that biome/season.

P.P.S. Hemp with raw+cooked -edible seeds, seed paste, press cakes, oil, flour (TIL this), and thread-processable leaves! One-stop shopping for all your (non-booze) farming needs. :)

« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 01:48:28 pm by Snaake »
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