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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3805802 times)

Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9000 on: January 29, 2014, 04:08:23 pm »

What happens to an adventurer that retires in a previously retired player fortress from dwarf mode once you reclaim the fortress? Will he just stay at the site and hang around or maybe even become a member of the society? Does the adventurer's race make any difference here?

This is "unretiring," not "reclaiming," since the fort hasn't fallen to monsters:
I also tested out retiring a dwarven adventurer in a retired fort and then unretiring the fort, and it basically worked out -- the adventurer was listed as a soldier without a squad, which I need to fix, and I need to tweak the items they are carrying, but otherwise they were a proper fortress citizen. If you hand your former adventurer an official position in the fort and then retire the fort and then unretire the adventurer, I guess you'd be controlling an official, but you wouldn't have any actual powers, since we don't have anything set up for that yet in adv mode. When I first started the adventure, I was expecting to have to walk from the main dwarven civ out to my retired fortress, but the game just started me in the retired fort. That kind of drives home that you are just being created out of thing air, but it makes as much sense as starting at any other inhabited dwarven site.

I think non-dwarven adventurers will be uncontrollable.  They might even be labeled as "Tame".

Since I'm able to claim a site, does this also apply to fortresses? What kind of sites ar claimable?

Quote
Quote from: Novel Scoops
Will adventurers be able to reclaim abandoned fortresses for their Civ through capturing the main building, such as a keep or mead hall? When goblins capture a dwarf fortress, is the site map converted to a goblin fortress template and vice versa? How long does this take? Will players be able to embark on recently conquered sites?
Quote from: Ribs
What happens if you attack the leader of one of your retired fortresses? Can you claim it with your adventurer? Can you claim dwarven fortresses at all?
If so,

Will there be some variation there, or will the dwarves from retired fortresses always be the more loyal types who will try very hard to kill your adventurer before surrendering?

What complications would occour from doing something like dethroning a dwarven king? Is that going to be possible? I imagine you would be able to take the dwarven capital by killing a whole bunch of people and making the king yield to you. But what happens then? Is it possible for your adventurer to aquire the title of king if he conquers enough dwarven settlements?

I think the way it "works" now, you could claim one of your retired fortresses, but it wouldn't actually know how to have it change hands, since there is no power location (at least not in a way that is currently understood by the adventure part of the game).  Abandoned fortresses don't have people in them, so you'd have to bring a companion along, state a claim to them, and then not have it recognized because there is no power location.  You can kill whomever, but you can't obtain the civ-level positions.  If you kill a monarch, you'll end up with a replacement, if there's a claimant around, or a lack of decision making -- which doesn't matter so much for dwarves, since they don't attack anybody yet.  I haven't allowed adventurers to place a claim on an existing entity position (they can only form a new entity with a new site claim), but you'll definitely be able to do that when we get into the meat of succession wars later.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 04:14:20 pm by Footkerchief »
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nasobema

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9001 on: January 29, 2014, 04:16:11 pm »

What happens to an adventurer that retires in a previously retired player fortress from dwarf mode once you reclaim the fortress? Will he just stay at the site and hang around or maybe even become a member of the society? Does the adventurer's race make any difference here?

Just a note: this is "unretiring," not "reclaiming," since the fort hasn't fallen to monsters.


Thanks for clarifying. But yeah, that's what I meant.

As for my other question, it was obviously answered already but... to be honest, I'm not sure whether I fully get Toady's explantion.
Guess, I'll have to see how it works by myself... in the new release... which will be there... soon!
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thvaz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9002 on: January 29, 2014, 04:18:05 pm »

I don't know how great a rewrite it would be, but the scale difference between Adv. and Fortress mode is really a great problem for the game. I think it will come the day when Toady will have to tackle this issue.

I think it could be done sensibly if Fortress mode had the same scale as adventure, but in real time, and we had some Fast Forward feature. The pace of the mode would greatly change, and balancing it would be hell, however. I imagine the ammount of rewriting would be enormous.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9003 on: January 29, 2014, 04:27:33 pm »

Thanks for clarifying. But yeah, that's what I meant.

As for my other question, it was obviously answered already but... to be honest, I'm not sure whether I fully get Toady's explantion.
Guess, I'll have to see how it works by myself... in the new release... which will be there... soon!

In case you didn't see it, I edited in an answer to the first question, too.
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nasobema

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9004 on: January 29, 2014, 04:50:00 pm »

Thanks for clarifying. But yeah, that's what I meant.

As for my other question, it was obviously answered already but... to be honest, I'm not sure whether I fully get Toady's explantion.
Guess, I'll have to see how it works by myself... in the new release... which will be there... soon!

In case you didn't see it, I edited in an answer to the first question, too.

Indeed, I saw it just now.
But hey, that's just amazing!
Needless to say that I cannot wait to play this...

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CaptainArchmage

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9005 on: January 29, 2014, 04:56:24 pm »

I think non-dwarven adventurers will be uncontrollable.  They might even be labeled as "Tame".

To be honest non-dwarven adventurers retiring to the fort should become a member of the fortress, and be able to do things. I think the sites already have intelligent non-entity beings in them, doing work and maybe even owning property. Toady had mentioned something about multi-racial forts early on while working on this release.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9006 on: January 29, 2014, 05:01:40 pm »

I think non-dwarven adventurers will be uncontrollable.  They might even be labeled as "Tame".

To be honest non-dwarven adventurers retiring to the fort should become a member of the fortress, and be able to do things. I think the sites already have intelligent non-entity beings in them, doing work and maybe even owning property. Toady had mentioned something about multi-racial forts early on while working on this release.
They should, but they won't until the multiracial fortresses are actually worked on (what Toady mentioned was they haven't been worked on).
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Spish

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9007 on: January 29, 2014, 05:09:27 pm »

If you reactivate a retired fortress, will it have retained the same stage of difficulty from when you left it? IE, will there be massive sieges and ambushes right off the bat?
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9008 on: January 29, 2014, 05:31:05 pm »

If you reactivate a retired fortress, will it have retained the same stage of difficulty from when you left it? IE, will there be massive sieges and ambushes right off the bat?

Difficulty is population, trade and value based.

Two of those are based entirely on things on-site and the third one I don't know.

So yes, it probably will.

misko27

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9009 on: January 29, 2014, 08:57:00 pm »

If you reactivate a retired fortress, will it have retained the same stage of difficulty from when you left it? IE, will there be massive sieges and ambushes right off the bat?

Difficulty is population, trade and value based.

Two of those are based entirely on things on-site and the third one I don't know.

So yes, it probably will.
As far as I am aware value is on-site. So as Putnam said, yes, you can get sieged immediately.

As for Adventure-Dwarf mode crossovers, not any time soon. It would need a major readjustment of one or both modes, and would really mess with the balance: no one wants to play a real-time dwarf fort, everything would take as forever. Of course at it's current speed, Dwarves would be zooming around the map like drunken midgets on scooters, and the player would have no clue what was going on until he or she paused.
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9010 on: January 29, 2014, 09:01:49 pm »

I meant the first and third are on-site and the middle I don't know, that was my fault.

DG

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9011 on: January 29, 2014, 10:03:46 pm »

no one wants to play a real-time dwarf fort

You underestimate the craziness of the player-base. Once we have better interaction with followers and are able to do jobs in adventure mode it's exactly what a lot of people will do. The time-skip idea has been discussed at length in several suggestion threads which make interesting reading.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9012 on: January 30, 2014, 12:29:21 am »

Quote from: Toady One
Today I started merging all of the old dwarf mode acquaintance stuff with the new personal reputation system,

Oooh, so does this mean that each of the dwarves will have their own personal reputation system? This may have been asked before and I'm not sure if the new personal reputation system was mentioned before
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misko27

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9013 on: January 30, 2014, 01:06:54 am »

no one wants to play a real-time dwarf fort

You underestimate the craziness of the player-base. Once we have better interaction with followers and are able to do jobs in adventure mode it's exactly what a lot of people will do. The time-skip idea has been discussed at length in several suggestion threads which make interesting reading.
Well that is different: That's making a settlement through an avatar.  But there are inherent limits to that personalization of your power; namely, you are no longer some strange non-physical culture-based hive-mind with telepathic control over dwarven bureaucracy and locked doors, with a penchant for obsessive control and omniscience.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 01:08:50 am by misko27 »
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DG

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #9014 on: January 30, 2014, 01:49:33 am »

Yeah, I've never liked the remote-controlled lockable doors but I think that's come up often in suggestions and discussions and has yet to budge much.

Fake edit: I just did a quick search for my own curiosity's sake and there's word-of-Toady from 2006.

I think forcing you to lock every door manually would be cumbersome (having dwarves need keys would be even worse).  It's not that I'm against the idea in principle, but it would make the game unreasonable difficult to use.

I don't know if I agree but I can understand the sentiment.
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