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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3806117 times)

smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8580 on: January 05, 2014, 07:47:05 pm »

In the upcoming version human civilizations will apparently consist of clusters of city states in various tributary relationships. The only supreme lords will be the god impersonators and their successors. (Is that actually the case in the current version as well? I thought they had lawgivers as their standard civ rulers.) Considering that, which entities will be responsible for the construction and garrisoning of the fortress sites that usually show up on the frontiers of human civs? Can fortress sites be claimed and fought over just like towns and hamlets? Can the goblins occupy them?

The responsibility is probably the same as it is now, the local city-state of the civilization since there isn't any 'leader of the whole civilization'.

As for goblins occupying a fort, I think they can kind of do that now because in adventure mode, I once ran into a fort that was occupied by goblins that were hostile to me. I know they might have been a criminal group, but i looked at legends and that particular fort had been attacked and looted recently by a goblin civ that was still at war with the civ I started with (or was friendly with).

It wasn't a site occupation in the way the next version does it.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 03:43:14 am by smjjames »
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Zavvnao

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8581 on: January 05, 2014, 10:36:52 pm »

and I like the idea of human civs being loose, almost-confederations like this.
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Bandreus

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8582 on: January 06, 2014, 08:46:27 am »

I'd like for (the concept of) civilizations to be much more loose and dynamic.

I.e. a specific group of humans might organize their society as a confederation of city-states, while a whole different one could more closely resemble a proper kingdom/empire. When it comes to fantastic races, these might adhere to pre-defined kinds of societies (say, dwarven civs always have a king/queen no matter what), but ideally all of this stuff would go into the raws.

I don't know much about what is/isn't in the raws, so part of this might already be data-driven rather than hard coded (like the definition for various positions and nobles are, unless I'm being mistaken).
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8583 on: January 06, 2014, 10:40:44 am »

Well, Toady might try to allow different government types to arise either through RNG or emergent behavior.

Right now, the human civs are kind of like the Ancient Greek civilization as a whole with the various city states.

Nice new devlog this morning, looks like things are shaping up towards release. I wonder if he still has work to do on the dwarven and elven civs, or maybe he uses the human civ as a template to make sure it works and then copies the raws over to the dwarven and elven civs and makes sure it works there.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 10:44:55 am by smjjames »
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Mesa

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8584 on: January 06, 2014, 10:53:37 am »

Is that just me or do the few latest devlogs suggest the beginning of the testing period and, gasp, release?  :o
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8585 on: January 06, 2014, 11:36:57 am »

I thought he was already in the testing period where he does testing and tweaking?
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CaptainArchmage

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8586 on: January 06, 2014, 11:41:30 am »

From the devlog today:
Quote
The bumble bee called, however, and she abandoned her home and family.

Did the bumble bee personally visit Thomod and would we have been able to witness the moment if present as an adventurer?
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Mesa

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8587 on: January 06, 2014, 11:54:59 am »

If that's true, then we might be finally in for a release.
Either now or in February, which would be the most badass early/late birthday present ever. (Groundhog Day represent!)
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thvaz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8588 on: January 06, 2014, 11:56:24 am »

From the devlog today:
Quote
The bumble bee called, however, and she abandoned her home and family.

Did the bumble bee personally visit Thomod and would we have been able to witness the moment if present as an adventurer?

This happened in world gen; I don't think this will happen during play in the next version. For the next version will be mostly, birth, death, succession and squabbles between villages.
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Nasikabatrachus

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8589 on: January 06, 2014, 12:02:18 pm »

Is that just me or do the few latest devlogs suggest the beginning of the testing period and, gasp, release?  :o

Pretty much. He did say he might finish off this release's notes by the end of January. I don't think that's quite in the testing phase, though.

I love today's poast:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The tragic stories of worldgen are pretty much my favorite thing to see in DF. The poast brings to mind a memorable personality I recently saw: a human law-giver who battled a clown-led goblin civ into peace, losing her husband, father, and daughter in the process, and subsequently profaned a temple, resulting in her exile as a forlorn werewarthog. I prefer to believe that Alu Necrowheeled was driven to profane the temple by her overwhelming grief.

I also find it very interesting that clowns are potentially even bigger elements of life on the surface world than before. This raises the question: will piercing the cotton candy and unleashing the circus result in an actual apocalypse if they aren't contained? I don't expect an answer to that, but I can't wait to try and see what happens.
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"I want to have goblins about me, for I am courageous. The courage which scareth away ghosts, createth for itself goblins--it wanteth to laugh." Thus Spake Zarathustra, chapter 7, Friedrich Nietzsche

Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8590 on: January 06, 2014, 12:08:30 pm »

From the devlog today:
Quote
The bumble bee called, however, and she abandoned her home and family.

Did the bumble bee personally visit Thomod and would we have been able to witness the moment if present as an adventurer?

This happened in world gen; I don't think this will happen during play in the next version. For the next version will be mostly, birth, death, succession and squabbles between villages.

Yep, and also, deities don't manifest in the world yet.  That would be a big change.

I also find it very interesting that clowns are potentially even bigger elements of life on the surface world than before. This raises the question: will piercing the cotton candy and unleashing the circus result in an actual apocalypse if they aren't contained? I don't expect an answer to that, but I can't wait to try and see what happens.

I don't think the role of demons has changed.  They already emerge and seize control in the current release -- the upcoming change is just flavor text ("snippets" as the devlog says).  So, no apocalypses.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8591 on: January 06, 2014, 12:16:33 pm »

I also find it very interesting that clowns are potentially even bigger elements of life on the surface world than before. This raises the question: will piercing the cotton candy and unleashing the circus result in an actual apocalypse if they aren't contained? I don't expect an answer to that, but I can't wait to try and see what happens.

I don't think the role of demons has changed.  They already emerge and seize control in the current release -- the upcoming change is just flavor text ("snippets" as the devlog says).  So, no apocalypses.

I think what he is trying to ask is whether the demons will start terrorizing the local area outside of the fort after they escape and take part of the ongoing history. This assumes a fort abandonment because I don't think they'll get bored and leave the map.

Also, the skinless lizard demon is just one of the usual unique demons that escape at the start of worldgen, not the randomly generated demons that appear out of hell.

As for the goddess, I'm pretty sure Toady wasn't speaking literally. It's the same thing as saying 'following god's calling'.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 12:21:19 pm by smjjames »
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Nasikabatrachus

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8592 on: January 06, 2014, 12:24:07 pm »

I think what he is trying to ask is whether the demons will start terrorizing the local area outside of the fort after they escape. This assumes a fort abandonment because I don't think they'll get bored and leave the map.

Right. Or wherever they could get to. It could also assume a crumbling rather than an abandonment.

Digging too deep without sufficient precautions has always seemed like it should be a monumentally Bad Idea to me, and not just for an individual fort.

Didn't Toady also make some changes to clown sites that he's keeping mum about? We don't know quite how much our fine festive friends have changed, yet.
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"I want to have goblins about me, for I am courageous. The courage which scareth away ghosts, createth for itself goblins--it wanteth to laugh." Thus Spake Zarathustra, chapter 7, Friedrich Nietzsche

Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8593 on: January 06, 2014, 12:29:28 pm »

I think what he is trying to ask is whether the demons will start terrorizing the local area outside of the fort after they escape. This assumes a fort abandonment because I don't think they'll get bored and leave the map.

Right. Or wherever they could get to. It could also assume a crumbling rather than an abandonment.

Digging too deep without sufficient precautions has always seemed like it should be a monumentally Bad Idea to me, and not just for an individual fort.

Didn't Toady also make some changes to clown sites that he's keeping mum about? We don't know quite how much our fine festive friends have changed, yet.

Yeah, today's devlog has no bearing on the release of demons in Fortress Mode.  If that's been changed at all for the upcoming release, Toady has deliberately not mentioned it for spoiler reasons.
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Atomic Chicken

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8594 on: January 06, 2014, 01:02:12 pm »

So, I was reading the most recent FOTF answers, and this one in particular caught my eye:
Quote from: Thundercraft
When it comes time for magical artifacts, if their creation actually was inspired by a god, then will the item description mention this fact or even the name of the deity?

It's difficult to say what's going to happen there.  That said, the new demon sites have a slight touch of that in the next release, on a whim.
Anyone care to speculate on what this could mean? :D
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