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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3826759 times)

Valtam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8310 on: December 14, 2013, 07:14:05 pm »

With tributes running the town while you're away, will messengers ever find you to alert you to problems in that town, e.g. the guy you left it charge was killed and someone new controls the town? Or will you intrinsically know when your rule is affected?

Tributes and such are likely going to be kept abstract, but Toady hasn't mentioned anything about a prompt telling "you have lost a settlement" or something like that. So maybe you're going to be kept up in the news thanks to rumours and improved dialog system. I might be wrong.
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my first quest was to seige a nemacrcors tower i killed 3 nemacrcors the got killed by a zombie fly.
How on earth did you manage to do that twice?

Zavvnao

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8311 on: December 14, 2013, 09:34:15 pm »

And remember, there will probably be secrets that we are supposed to find for ourelves also.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8312 on: December 14, 2013, 09:39:59 pm »

And remember, there will probably be secrets that we are supposed to find for ourelves also.

Like the mysterious demon sites. Though I know you mean secrets that haven't been revealed.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8313 on: December 15, 2013, 09:51:50 am »

Given that the process of creating or controlling existing adventurers has been discussed, i 'd like to ask how do you intend to handle players who want to create custom "heroes" from scratch? You mentioned writing characters into world gen after the fact, but i was wondering how this would be affected by creating characters with more impact on the world then mcpeasant. On a related note, could a player's backstory be affected by his actions in play? Could some traits, like social skills, be similarly affected? This does depend on a lack of life-changing/important events before play if you wish to make sweeping changes, which might be rare for many adventurers, but perhaps how a freshly created peasant with little personality interacts with his acquaintances in his village could let the game make some fair judgements. A adventurer who nicks pies could be reasonably accused of never growing up, for example. As for the skills, this again requires unimportant, bored characters, and even then could raise eyebrows if the difference between how they acted in "world gen" and play is dramatic enough. This ties into a broader question of handling differences between the player's game-play style and the internal consistency of their character. You've previously mentioned that the current inability of the game to simulate the duties, relationship and general "role" of historical figures, or notice/handle people "breaking character" is the reason we can't assume control of them, but how important is acting like a historical figure as opposed to playing like a historical figure? Obvious examples include combat, but even simple things like a player controlling a unobservant character looking at everything, or a new player controlling a experienced tomb raider triggering every single trap, would be relevant. Would players in this position be able to use abstraction, or be able to use (limited) hints?

The world is becoming more and more lively, and this should make it much less predictable, but nevertheless i was wondering what plans do you have to handle players who know the ins and out of a favorite world, particularly those with a roleplaying bent who do not want to reenact past discoveries and struggle to resist "spoiling" new characters? How much of the worlds fundamentals (theme, magic, critters, geography) could change after world gen has stopped and play has started?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 02:58:22 pm by Novel Scoops »
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wdiksolan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8314 on: December 15, 2013, 09:53:09 am »

I was reading through some old devlogs about tracking and combined with giving companions orders this question popped up:

When being tracked, can you tell a companion to wait and then ambush the hunters while you escape?
Or better yet, will you be able to give your companion your shoes and then tell him to head in another direction to confuse them and if so, will they follow him?
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Broken

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8315 on: December 15, 2013, 10:43:43 am »

So, Now that the duplicating populations are being fixed, does this mean that bringing the age of death is posible, like in the old days?
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Quote
In a hole in the ground there lived a dwarf. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a dwarf fortress, and that means magma.
Dwarf fortress: Tales of terror and inevitability

PDF urist master

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8316 on: December 15, 2013, 11:09:24 am »

friendly fire is nice though. will a loyalty cascade happen if i order a marksdwarf to shoot another dwarf?
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Greiger

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8317 on: December 15, 2013, 11:21:36 am »

Quote
you can choose to shoot non-hostiles now

Woo! I can properly go bow hunting giraffes now!  Do you know how hard those things were to melee?
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Disclaimer: Not responsible for dwarven deaths from the use or misuse of this post.
Quote
I don't need friends!! I've got knives!!!

smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8318 on: December 15, 2013, 12:13:49 pm »

On the population duplication, if you, say, clean out a kobold cave, leave the site, come back, and now it won't be populated by things in massive lag inducing numbers of hundreds (and about a thousand ravens in one case)? Currently you have to make the site a lair via DFhack in order to keep that from happening. Kobold caves seem especially prone to the population duplication.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8319 on: December 15, 2013, 12:20:15 pm »

On the population duplication, if you, say, clean out a kobold cave, leave the site, come back, and now it won't be populated by things in massive lag inducing numbers of hundreds (and about a thousand ravens in one case)? Currently you have to make the site a lair via DFhack in order to keep that from happening. Kobold caves seem especially prone to the population duplication.

That would fall under site population duplication, which is what Toady worked on, yeah.  Was there something you wanted clarified beyond that?

What happens if you start mistreating the citizens of your new entity? Will they kick you out of the entity, or will they leave it, or will they just be like "well the King can do what he wants, I guess." Are they more tolerant of stealing in the name of the new site leader (considering it tribute or something?)

The only rebellions we've heard about are insurrections against occupiers, so I think this would depend on whether the adventurer is considered an occupier.  That might be based on whether you're from the same civilization?

Quote from: devlog
I also updated the player targeting code for shooting and throwing to respect the new conflict system -- nothing special like aiming or anything, but as a side effect you can choose to shoot non-hostiles now (there is still no friendly fire if it isn't intended, but you have the option to select them).
friendly fire is nice though. will a loyalty cascade happen if i order a marksdwarf to shoot another dwarf?

The devlog is talking about the player's ability to target other creatures in Adv. Mode.  I don't think it affects Fortress Mode attack orders.

Given that the process of creating or controlling existing adventurers has been discussed, i 'd like to ask how do you intend to handle players who want to create custom "heroes" from scratch? You mentioned writing characters into world gen after the fact, but i was wondering how this would be affected by creating characters with more impact on the world then mcpeasant. On a related note, could a player's backstory be affected by his actions in play? This does depend on a lack of life-changing events, which might be rare for many adventurers, but perhaps how a freshly created peasant with little personality interacts with his acquaintances in his village could let the game make some fair judgements. A adventurer who nicks pies could be reasonably accused of never growing up, for example.

Toady has discussed this at length.  Basically, retconning is hard.
Spoiler: long (click to show/hide)

The world is becoming more and more lively, and this should make it much less predictable, but nevertheless i was wondering what plans do you have to handle players who know the ins and out of a favorite world, particularly those with a roleplaying bent who do not want to reenact past discoveries? How much of the worlds fundamentals could change after world gen has stopped and play has started?

What sorts of fundamentals do you have in mind?  This may be relevant:

Rainseeker:   Yeah, that actually is interesting, to have the concept of, maybe, scenarios where that is stated, like, you know, 'In ten years, the end of the world is coming, prepare yourself.'
Capntastic:   That'd be fun.
Toady:   Yeah. We're definitely thinking, when we said ... there was this old Armok system where, I think it was the atmosphere, plot ... what was the other word, there were three words right? There was the atmosphere and the plot and the something else ... a genre. The genre, atmosphere, plot system of Armok I, which of course ... we didn't get anywhere with that game, but the genre, atmosphere, plot system ... the idea was you'd pick your overall genre that your game is in, if you want to do horror/fantasy or if you want to have My Little Mermaid or something like that, and then you'd have the overall plot: is it an apocalyptic My Little Mermaid game which means that someone's going to come and steal all your toys at the end of the world, or is it a cyclic game, or is it a game where everything kind of fades into mundanity or whatever. Then there's the atmosphere which is kind of everything else, the little things about the game and little tweaks that you can do to it. So, even if we're not using that same system, we have those world generation parameters right, in Dwarf Fortress, where you can set up various facts about the world and that would be where this apocalypse thing fits in, you could give an overall arc to your world each time.
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8320 on: December 15, 2013, 01:03:33 pm »

friendly fire is nice though. will a loyalty cascade happen if i order a marksdwarf to shoot another dwarf?

Loyalty cascades as we know them should be dead with the new reputation system. It's possible that a new, similar bug is in existence, but I'd rather wait and see.

PigtailLlama

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8321 on: December 15, 2013, 02:20:04 pm »

I've been thinking about enemies, and I've got to ask: Where are we in terms of automata? Will bronze colossi and iron men still be lumps of living metal that take the form of a bipedal being, or will they soon be beings with metal flesh and mechanisms for bones and muscles?
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8322 on: December 15, 2013, 02:46:21 pm »

I've been thinking about enemies, and I've got to ask: Where are we in terms of automata? Will bronze colossi and iron men still be lumps of living metal that take the form of a bipedal being, or will they soon be beings with metal flesh and mechanisms for bones and muscles?

It's fair game for the future, but there are no immediate plans:

Rainseeker:   Speaking of the bronze colossuses; could it possibly be that you have it be connected together with a bunch of bolts or something that could fall off and that's the way you could kill it even if it's solid.
Toady:   I guess one of the things to consider is why is it there? Was it made by somebody?
Capntastic:   Some sort of supernatural intervention.
Toady:   I don't remember anymore, but was the one in Jason and the Argonauts made by Hephaestus or something? So created by a forge god type thing, right? Then there's the idea; could they have been made by old dwarves, then you have the problem of, well, can your dwarves make them? And then you get into the whole automaton segue into steampunk and so on. Then there's just them being ... or are they some kind of bronzey spirit of nature type thing, that's just kind of wondering around, causing trouble.
Ampersand:   I don't know if you've ever played Morrowind or anything, but in the lore of Morrowind or Daggerfall even, the dwarves did in fact make a gigantic mecha.
Toady:   Yeah, they had all kinds of steam automatons, right? I remember ... no I won that game, I think, if you're talking about the big statue at the end. So there's a notion of dwarves there, just ... there's something about steam [that] bothers me, I don't know why. Having all these steam powered ...
Ampersand:   I don't think their giant machine was steam powered, it was part of Lorkhan ...
Toady:   Oh yeah that's right, there's magic and stuff, and we don't have a whole lot of that, but we should, yeah. I don't remember what our thoughts on automatons were completely; I believe that having something like an intelligent automaton walking around would be an artifact type situation.

Bloat42, AUTOMATONS, (Future): Automatons could be created, but it's campy to overdo it, at least in the standard world model. An artifact creating dwarf could make special automatons.

PowerGoal45, MEET THE CYBERFIST, (Future): You use your iron geared prosthetic hand to crush a piece of stone in front of the cowering goblin, and it passes out.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8323 on: December 15, 2013, 02:55:53 pm »

I've been thinking about enemies, and I've got to ask: Where are we in terms of automata? Will bronze colossi and iron men still be lumps of living metal that take the form of a bipedal being, or will they soon be beings with metal flesh and mechanisms for bones and muscles?

You could do something with the tissues and creative raw editing. I know the Masterwork mod has these golems and automaton things.

I see no reason why someone can't do it now. Though I guess the problem then becomes keeping them as formidable as they are now.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #8324 on: December 15, 2013, 04:01:21 pm »

I've cleared up what i mean by "fundamentals" in the post Footkerchief, thanks for asking.
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