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[King Mir]

At least it means less adventurers wrestling badgers.

It might make sense to nerf skill increases from combat globally, but doing it for training but not for live combat is the kind of thing that leads to danger rooms and other unrealistic exploits.

[WillowLuman]

Training isn't a "cheap" exploit, unless you consider training outside combat to be dishonorable in real life itself. People would have to find a willing training partner, and they'd still have to put time and effort into it. And going around roughing up peasants or starting bar brawls sounds plenty dangerous to me, since I doubt it would be legal.

I don't think by "non-lethal combat" Toady meant you could go around attacking people as long as you didn't intend to kill them, and not expect them to react.

[Vgray]

Though, we're not at the point that you actually be arrested right?

[MeTekillot]

With the way excessive blood-loss and loss of critical bodyparts causing instantaneous death, will any proposed magic in far-future builds have the power to bring the dead back to life as they were? Is there going to be a stage of critical injury that is 'only mostly dead without magickal assistance' and 'completely dead, bar none, even with magic'?

[Eric Blank]

Though, we're not at the point that you actually be arrested right?

Nope, we won't be getting the crime and punishment arc in full this release, so guards won't be making arrests or hauling people off to jail. I'd assume that if you do manage to piss the civ off and become an "enemy" they'd just gang up on you still. We'll just have to wait and see how far we can push it before we become an enemy of the people.

[Ribs]

Training isn't a "cheap" exploit, unless you consider training outside combat to be dishonorable in real life itself. People would have to find a willing training partner, and they'd still have to put time and effort into it. And going around roughing up peasants or starting bar brawls sounds plenty dangerous to me, since I doubt it would be legal.

I don't think by "non-lethal combat" Toady meant you could go around attacking people as long as you didn't intend to kill them, and not expect them to react.

It becomes cheap if you can get about as much experience with it as you would in real combat, but with absolutely no risks, which would make raising skills even more trivial than it currently is. You will just need to hold the upper arrow key up, and not think about it for a couple of minutes until your character is maxed out. That's the kind of exploit I'm worried about.

At least when you're wrestling badgers your guy usually has a slight chance of getting some permanent damage if you're not paying attention.

Toady mentioned "horseplay" rules and such... if there are situations where extremely non-lethal fighting is easy to initiate, this could be easily exploitable unless there are limitations to the ammount of experience you can get in said situations. At least I think so.

[iceball3]

Perhaps a cap on how high training can make your skill could alleviate this, different levels of combat sort of offering more improvement on the upper limits of this. Training while you're grand master should still be able to beat away the rust, though.

[Footkerchief]

The skill grinding question seems on-topic to me, but a lot of discussion is drifting into Suggestions territory:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=116203.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115080.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=130915.0

[Demonic Gophers]

If the possibility concerns you so much, don't exploit it.  It's not like other players are going to import their 'cheap' adventurers into your worlds and beat up your adventurers with them.

[WillowLuman]

And the better argument is real people don't have to actually compete in the Olympics to train for them.

You or your training partner will likely get tired and have to stop, and the NPC will certainly stop when they get exhausted. And just because you're starting a fistfight with someone instead of a knife fight, it doesn't mean there are "no risks." Less than lethal quarter doesn't mean "no injuries whatsoever." At the very least you're likely to get bruised, and broken fingers, dislodged teeth, or even concussions seem likely.

[Ribs]

In dwarf mode, sparring is more or less completely safe. And if stamina doesn't change much in the next version, it would also be a non-issue. By the time your character is exausted, he's probably reached legendary in everything you're training him in, or close to it.

And yeah, skill grinding and exploits are popular topics and this can be discussed elsewhere. If people think I'm derailing the thread, I'll give it a break.

[WillowLuman]

Toady DID say he was changing the skill increase rates this release, so I doubt you'll be able to get legendary as quickly. And I've tried adventure sparring in DFhack, your companions already seem to tire quickly.

[Swonnrr]

I don't know where to ask this, and there seems to be the right topic.
Search haven't helped me, due to too common words.

EDIT:ANSWERED
Will there be improvements in DF2013/4 on combat pathing IA?
I'm specifically thinking about the civilians running away from the enemy in the wrong direction (AWAY from security burrows), or military watching the fight with "can't reach target".

[Footkerchief]

Will there be improvements in DF2013/4 on combat pathing IA?
I'm specifically thinking about the civilians running away from the enemy in the wrong direction (AWAY from security burrows), or military watching the fight with "can't reach target".

Military attack orders are on the bug tracker.  It's very unlikely that Toady will look at it before the post-release bug-fixing period.  Regarding civilian escape pathfinding:

Did you consider escape-pathfinding improvements? I mean Dwarf running away from entrance into an impregnable fortress, because another tile is few centimeters farther from forgotten beast, doesn't prove his "great analytical abilities"

This is unchanged in the upcoming version.  As for the future, Toady knows it's a feature people want:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111607.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58921.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70163.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=85588.0

[tfaal]

In dwarf mode, sparring is more or less completely safe. And if stamina doesn't change much in the next version, it would also be a non-issue. By the time your character is exausted, he's probably reached legendary in everything you're training him in, or close to it.

And yeah, skill grinding and exploits are popular topics and this can be discussed elsewhere. If people think I'm derailing the thread, I'll give it a break.

As far as we know, there is no way to spar with someone in adventure mode in this version. Sparring makes for "light tapping" combat messages, because it's not real combat, but pretend combat in dwarf mode. The "non-lethal" combat Toady implemented for adventure mode involves people bashing each other with their hands and feet, possibly breaking bones and causing serious injures. The skull has been made bigger, so you probably won't get your head smashed in, but if the mechanics for lungs haven't changed, one deep bruise to each of them means death by suffocation, without any chance of survival.