Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[smjjames]

They shouldn't be able to climb smoothed walls well at all, so...

Until they invent ladders to scale said wall.

[MrWiggles]

Dont believe invaders in dorf mode can climb yet.

[GreatWyrmGold]

When dwarves tantrum, what level of combat do they use? Or how about insane dwarves, or other scenarios when dwarves fight each other?

[Ribs]

Dont believe invaders in dorf mode can climb yet.

It has been said by Toady that there was a chance that it could occour "naturally" in dwarf mode, once it gets incremented with the new movement system. It was never clarified if it actually did happen... but constructed block walls should be climbable, if the AI is able to handle critters climbing at all.

[LordBaal]

To get Toady attention put your questions in green.

[smjjames]

Dont believe invaders in dorf mode can climb yet.

It has been said by Toady that there was a chance that it could occour "naturally" in dwarf mode, once ot gets incremented with the new movement system. It was never clarified if it actally did happen... but constructed block walls should be climbable, if the AI is able to handle critters climbing at all.

Until ladders are invented (and invaders are able to construct stuff), defending against climbers shouldn't be too hard, just make a overhanging ledge to prevent invaders from getting past, or make a moat to keep invaders from reaching the wall in the first place.

There is also the possibility of using a grapple and rope, but as you said, the AI has to be able to handle critters climbing.

On a note of things besides invaders, having climbing or even arboreal animals like monkeys would give a neat ambience, and another way for thieving monkeys to get into the fort.

[Areyar]

Isnt that a failing fortification though?
IIRC missiles can slip diagonally between those F and wall/floor sections.

sideview gapped wall

Code: [Select]

..+@..
.g.#^.

sideview solid wall

Code: [Select]

...+@..
.g.##^.
And creatures should be able to climb natural walls, walls made of stone, but not smoothed walls or walls made of blocks. Walls made of metal/bars were still unclear but should be inherently climbable. natural wooden walls and wooden log-walls would be climbable, wooden blocks perhaps not. (but shuld be more easilly climbed using crampons, claws etc when that makes it in because it's less hard)

Don't actually have a question at the moment. 

[Ribs]

And creatures should be able to climb natural walls, walls made of stone, but not smoothed walls or walls made of blocks. Walls made of metal/bars were still unclear but should be inherently climbable. natural wooden walls and wooden log-walls would be climbable, wooden blocks perhaps not. (but shuld be more easilly climbed using crampons, claws etc when that makes it in because it's less hard)

I think walls made out of blocks can be pretty climbable. Of course it depends... what kind of wall and what kind of blocks are we talking about?

This one seems very climb friendly, even with no tools, as long as you have a strong enough grip. And you can't really say that it's a rough stone wall, either...



So I think that for we to say that a certain wall is unclimbable we would have to assume what kind of walls the dwarves are making. I guess that when climbing becomes a thing in dwarf mode there could be ways of making built block walls smoother and less friendly to potential climbers. Maybe even finally having the mason skill actually count for something when building walls, by making walls made by more skilled masons less climbable. Who knows? But none of those things will be in for this release, that's for sure, as climbing in dwarf mode probably won't even happen this time around.

[WillowLuman]

You ever tried climbing a wall like that? It's much harder than it looks. It can be done, but not by most.

[smjjames]

You ever tried climbing a wall like that? It's much harder than it looks. It can be done, but not by most.

Yeah, even if something is technically climbable without equipment, it could still be very hard to climb. The thing is that walls right now are really abstract, there is no halfway between a wall that has huge cracks and protrusions on it to the one that Ribs posted to one that is so smooth that even a lizard that typically climbs walls, can't even climb it, excepting geckos though, those guys can climb glass.

[Bronze Dog]

Plaster, cement, concrete, and adobe come to mind for making constructed walls too smooth to climb. It'd probably be relatively easy to damage the smooth layer to expose the rough surface underneath, but I suspect most ways to do that would be just as applicable to damaging the wall itself, whether to break through or just make it into a rough surface. It'll probably be a long, long time before Toady implements wall damage via siege weaponry, though.

...Glass walls sound like a fun can of worms to contemplate. If you think of them as just conventional windows, yeah, you could get them pretty smooth, but in terms of resisting sieges, it's pretty silly to imagine goblins being halted by a glass house. On the other hand, I have a hard time imagining dwarves constructing thick, smooth siege-resistant glass walls without doing something akin to obsidian casting with molten sand. And finally, it's much easier to imagine walls made of blocks of glass, but they'd probably be on par with stone block walls in terms of climbing.

[WillowLuman]

The only way to get glass blocks would be casting in a very hot furnace, creating a very smooth block. Even if it was bumpy or ridged, glass is too smooth in its basic texture to offer purchase. And if it was cast in identical molds, then the cracks between blocks would offer no purchase either, because even paper would not fit between them. In the most crappily constructed glass block wall, you'd still need tools to climb.

I also can't imagine climbing a brick-and-mortar wall without tools, as the mortar fills any cracks you might try to put your fingers/toes in. Any wall that requires sticking fingers/toes into cracks requires great skill (and small enough fingers) to climb unaided, so a brick wall would have to have bricks jutting out it places to be climbable without a lot of practice/any tools. A cobblestone wall would be the most climbable, still somewhat more difficult than a natural cliff face but not by much

I hope that we might see quality modifiers on rock blocks in the future, so we can build like Machu Pichu: blocks fit together perfectly, not scaleable without tools.

This is why walls can keep armies out. Only light, relatively unencumbered soldiers can climb walls, and not without difficulty. Unless it turns out Gobbos become Peter Jackson's spiderman orcs from Moria, then why even bother with walls. But I doubt it will come to that.

[EnigmaticHat]

So I guess after this release filling moats with water will actually do something besides freezing in the winter and letting invaders walk in.

[Ribs]

Well, I'm no climbing specialist, but yeah. It does look hard, but not impossible to climb. Because Toady said that block walls are climbable, yet harder to climb than rough stone walls that's what I imagine they would look.

I guess I may as well ask:

Is climbing in dwarf mode confirmed for this release, or it ended up not happening?

If and when climbing becomes a thing in dwarf mode, will we see/be able to construct walls that will be harder or easier for things to climb on them? Like being able to order the construction of a block wall that is either full of cracks or very smooth?

Do you plan on having mortar/cement type materials in the future?

[Mephansteras]

Now that dwarves can have dreams, will they get any particular benefit from achieving that dream? If a dwarf, say, dreams of becoming a Master craftsdwarf, will anything happen when they eventually do become one?