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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3838471 times)

Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7410 on: September 05, 2013, 03:32:45 pm »

Thanks for the answers!
...
Are kobold sites and caves still on the to-do list for the release, or have they been pushed back?
...


With the bug-fixing to deal with dwarves idling out for specific jobs, are we going to be able to get dwarves to clean up areas better now?

Do you think we will be seeing kobold sites and improved caves in the coming release, or is this going to go straight for download when the bugs and trees are sorted out?


Quote from: Manveru Taurënér
Have you done any work on Kobolds yet and what ish do you have planned for them in short?

Nah, they are the largest yawning void left, probably.  Playing Kobold Quest is my only suggestion.  There may be other notes elsewhere, but I'm not sure where the twists and turns will bring us.

I'd say this points towards it definitely being planned to go in bar unforeseen complications :>

I doubt much has changed since this was asked the last time, especially with November now being the best guesstimate of when things will starting to shape up for the end bugfixing stuff. If this changes as we draw nearer to that date I'm sure Toady will let u know in the devlog/monthly update.
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eux0r

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7411 on: September 05, 2013, 04:41:12 pm »

Is there a designated source of the Eerie light, or not? Is it a quality we could give to a tree or something underground? Or is it to do with the Hidden Fun Stuff?
since he has not reworked the whole lighting code there wont be any kind of light sources, because right now, there isnt much of a lighting code at all. so no glowing mushroom-trees yet. the naming indicates its the lighting state of the circus tent just like "light" when you use k on a tile above ground or "dark" when you k in a tunnel.

How do you expect the maximum map height to be affected by the trees on the map? Will the magical highwoods be able to grow more than 15 z-levels, for example?
i assume they will be handled like constructed towers and therefore trees will most likely be able to grow more than 15 z-levels. some technical complications might come up when a tree tries to instantaneously grow higher than what the current map height is but that depends on the exact code in place for adjusting map-height to the terrain. technicaly the solid tiles of a tree should be no different than those of a mountain or tower.

Are you interested in doing a kind of "Mod Spotlight" for Dwarf Fortress as is done with Kerbal Space Program? An example format can be found on http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content.php/212-KSP-Weekly-September-03-2013
i doubt toady will do anything like that. while he stated that he is in favour of modding in general he (and a part of the comunity) also probably wont want to take time from working on the actual game. also toady dislikes burdening himself with promises that might be difficult to keep (at least i got that impression, maybe he even said something like that himself at some point, i dont remember).

as for threetoe... i have no idea.

edit: as always, typos, misspellings and grammatical errors
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 04:47:00 pm by eux0r »
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mastahcheese

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7412 on: September 05, 2013, 06:37:59 pm »

Thanks Toady!
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7413 on: September 05, 2013, 07:27:53 pm »

Interestingly, Humans actually evolved to run very far. We might not be the best, but our endurance is among the best in the animal kingdom. Our ancestors seriously just chased things that ran faster than them until they found them passed out from exhaustion.

Slightly more specifically, Humans evolved to run for long distances in very hot areas without overheating nearly as much as other animals. It wasn't just exhaustion, it was heat exhaustion that sometimes literally killed the prey we were hunting.
also following tracks. calmly jogging after an animal for days was our earliest hunting strategy

but i'd say that's something elves and dwarves would share with us from a common ancestor

EvilTwin

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7414 on: September 05, 2013, 08:38:20 pm »

Interestingly, Humans actually evolved to run very far. We might not be the best, but our endurance is among the best in the animal kingdom. Our ancestors seriously just chased things that ran faster than them until they found them passed out from exhaustion.

Slightly more specifically, Humans evolved to run for long distances in very hot areas without overheating nearly as much as other animals. It wasn't just exhaustion, it was heat exhaustion that sometimes literally killed the prey we were hunting.
also following tracks. calmly jogging after an animal for days was our earliest hunting strategy

but i'd say that's something elves and dwarves would share with us from a common ancestor

Elves? Yes. Dwarves? Doubt it, they're to stubby.
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Cobbler89

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7415 on: September 05, 2013, 09:06:04 pm »

Re. micro-optimization, there are actually arguments out there (I don't remember any of the details because I'm not wildly interested in optimization, I prefer to pick it up where code is already robust and there's an obvious inefficiency that can be corrected without altering the robustness; so take this with a grain of salt...) that most optimizations that go lower into the details than reworking the overall structure are the most likely thing to stop the compiler from optimizing even better than you can, hence that most programmer optimization actually makes the result worse. On the other hand, there are arguments that modularity is opposed to optimization since it's hard to optimize the details of functions that are neatly split up into pieces and spread across various components of the program. And, mind you, that's talking about optimizing human-readable code that the compiler has flexibility in turning into the optimal binary code that accomplishes what the human-readable code says to accomplish... There are people out there who still write libraries in assembler and boast of benchmarking them against the most lightweight and efficient C libraries and proving their assembler-based library is several times faster, but I don't really know how they get that good at that sort of programming -- they're probably the same people who can literally calculate hundreds of digits of pi in their heads and stuff like that.

That digression aside... Toady, you mention bug fixes and job priorities in discussion of future focus. When job priorities are revamped, will we have any level of control over changing those priorities, or will the priorities only be improved in weight and/or in the algorithms used? At risk of being suggestiony, I think right now simply letting us change the priority system's weights so things like cleaning don't have to always be apparently lower priority than idling would be sufficient to alleviate most of the complaints I've heard about the current priority system. Relatedly, "On Break" seems like a misnomer for "dwarf is dead to the world for the better part of the month, out of nowhere, entirely beyond the player's control and inevitably at the one time when you need that dwarf for something; until further notice act as though you will never see this dwarf again." Will breaks be revised in any way along with job priorities, either to make them more workable for the player or perhaps to increase their inherent benefits (or make there be some inherent benefits if there currently are none)?
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7416 on: September 05, 2013, 09:36:28 pm »

Elves? Yes. Dwarves? Doubt it, they're to stubby.
perseverance is more important than speed, dwarves are stubborn

Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7417 on: September 06, 2013, 12:34:23 am »

Quote from: Cruxador
Are redwoods planned to be in/special? If so what's going on there?

I like redwoods and grew up near some we visited from time to time.  Highwoods are probably in because of those, before we knew what we were going to do with trees.  I haven't put in redwoods yet, since I've been focused on fruit trees this time, but I suspect they'll still have to be dwarfed by the "magical" highwood trees in the high "savagery" areas.
I sort of feel like making something bigger than maximum-sized redwoods (as in, the ones people come from around the world to see) is a bit silly. I mean, a redwood is already really impressive, going beyond that is sort of like what science fiction does often where it just makes numbers higher for no particular reason. While questions of physics can be waved aside by magic I feel like they really don't need to be - unless a tree is something that's special as a singular entity, like Yggdrasil, and needs to be big enough to hold a world or a city or something, a redwood is pretty much the right size for being big.

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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7418 on: September 06, 2013, 01:03:30 am »

Will breaks be revised in any way along with job priorities, either to make them more workable for the player or perhaps to increase their inherent benefits (or make there be some inherent benefits if there currently are none)?

Breaks are Jobs. So when Job Priority are revisited, how Dorfs perform breaks will probably go through another revision. The last change to breaks, included trying to make dorfs do more personal stuff, like buying and eating what not while on break. I think this also came with dorfs being more flexiable with their needing to go eat and drink while on the job.
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Trif

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7419 on: September 06, 2013, 06:16:49 am »

That digression aside... Toady, you mention bug fixes and job priorities in discussion of future focus. When job priorities are revamped, will we have any level of control over changing those priorities, or will the priorities only be improved in weight and/or in the algorithms used? At risk of being suggestiony, I think right now simply letting us change the priority system's weights so things like cleaning don't have to always be apparently lower priority than idling would be sufficient to alleviate most of the complaints I've heard about the current priority system.

Yes, that's the plan.

Req86, JOB PRIORITIZING, (Future): Right now, there is a fixed order in which units decide to do the different types of jobs. This could be changed for a given unit (or for the whole fortress).

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10ebbor10

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7420 on: September 06, 2013, 07:39:07 am »

Does the [CAVE_ADAPT] tag currently (or in the coming release) give the dwarves a longer line of sight underground than other creatures, or is the three-tile limit underground universally imposed in adventure mode but not in fortress mode?
IIRC, sight rules only apply to adventure mode. Fortress mode dwarves have a sphere of vision instead. (Makes it more resource efficient).

Quote
Is there a designated source of the Eerie light, or not? Is it a quality we could give to a tree or something underground? Or is it to do with the Hidden Fun Stuff?
The eerie light is just a standard background lightning, as no work has been done on lightning code.

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Are you interested in doing a kind of "Mod Spotlight" for Dwarf Fortress as is done with Kerbal Space Program? An example format can be found on http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content.php/212-KSP-Weekly-September-03-2013
I'm going to guess no. KSP has an entire team, meaning that there's always someone free to do this without interfering in development time. Seems like a good idea for a community project though.

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Finally, just because.... November? Seriously?
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Jheral

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7421 on: September 06, 2013, 08:20:42 am »

Quote
Finally, just because.... November? Seriously?
I agree november is a silly name for the tenth month of the year.
Agreed. Curse those egotistical emperors and their need to put themselved on the calendars...  ( it's eleventh, btw ;) )
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7422 on: September 06, 2013, 09:16:51 am »

November didn't used to be the nine month of the year?
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Jheral

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7423 on: September 06, 2013, 01:43:57 pm »

Ninth before January and February were added, yeah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar , if it's of any real interest - although it didn't have anything to do with the roman emperors for whom July and August are named, which is what I assumed. I knew two were added, just not which two. Ah well, I suppose that'll just serve as a reminder to actually check things before saying them, from time to time  :)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 01:47:54 pm by Jheral »
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #7424 on: September 06, 2013, 02:44:15 pm »

No wonder population growth was so slow back then- nine months would have been much more time with fewer months in the year!
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