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[LordBaal]

Umm maybe a solution would be making walls with some floors over them like a "T" or a upside down "L" where the floor on top serves as roof for the assaulting units.

Unless they a re mounting giant spiders, in which case you are pretty much f**ked up.

[Mr S]

Those overhangs you're talking about, machicolations, would indeed be handy.  They will also be superfluous in the next version, as Toady has stated that he will not modify invader pathfinding to take advantage of climbing.  Climbing will be a largely Adventure mode thing this time around, with only edge case, incidental effect on Dwarf mode.

That said, I tend to build these into my walls, as well as moats, in the current and previous versions for RP purposes.  Can't wait till we get the option to add "murder holes" to the floor above our gatehouse and use them to harass beseiging forces.

[Pie Maker]

The last mention was that block walls are as climbable as rough walls. This may change before the release, but the answer below was after Toady moved on from climbing, so it should be up to date. No mention of grates yet, I believe.

Please clarify this, Toady. By smooth walls do you only mean natural walls that have been smoothed by an engraver (the impression I'm getting) or also walls constructed of blocks instead of rough stone/logs/bars?

I haven't distinguished the constructions yet, but I'm for making block walls much harder to climb, both from a game and realism perspective.

Ah, so he did. I did not see this, thanks. Although I do wonder just what Toady means by "making block walls much harder to climb." Does this mean that climbing them requires a high climbing skill, so that if you don't have the required skill you won't be able to attempt to climb them at all, or that anyone can attempt to climb them, but unskilled people are more likely to fall off/fail?

Umm maybe a solution would be making walls with some floors over them like a "T" or a upside down "L" where the floor on top serves as roof for the assaulting units.

Unless they a re mounting spiders giant, in which case you are pretty much f**ked up.

Thanks, but I was asking this with adventurers in mind. I think it would be pretty fun to make fortresses specially designed for adventurers to explore, and climbing opens up plenty of new challenges for the unfortunate adventurer. I really hope that Toady is going to add ropes/ladders for climbing purposes in the near future though, I'm certain that they'll be a great addition to adventurer fortresses.

[Knight Otu]

Ah, so he did. I did not see this, thanks. Although I do wonder just what Toady means by "making block walls much harder to climb." Does this mean that climbing them requires a high climbing skill, so that if you don't have the required skill you won't be able to attempt to climb them at all, or that anyone can attempt to climb them, but unskilled people are more likely to fall off/fail?

Well, obviously we don't know yet, but my guess would be the latter, some kind of skill penalty.

[Witty]

With the addition of multi-tile tress, can we expect to see diffrent sizes and branching patterns depending on their species?

[Knight Otu]

The tree raws will have an unknown variety amount of growth parameters of some kind, which should give different tree species different shapes and sizes. Tons of (hopefully) related quotes in the spoiler.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

will we be able to modify the raws for trees so to make them more realistic and how close to reality (in both of height and width) the new trees are?

The raws can be modified, though I think the thread discussed whether the new trees are realistic are not.  In reality, I think they should be much taller on average, but then again, the mountains should also be thousands of tiles tall by the metric I've been using, and tall trees make large single-tile creatures look goofy no matter what, so it's a mess.  People should be able to change things to something they are more or less happy with, anyway.

How moddable will the following be: tree shape, size, quantity of fruit bearing
Will all trees have different defined varieties of leaves/petals/etc? For example, pine trees will have pine needles, oak trees will have oak leaves, palm trees will have palm fronds.
Will the varieties of tree produce have different specific uses? IE sap from a maple tree could be made into a syrup, while syrups made from saps taken from other trees would be inedible.
With the implementation of the other new sites, will this in turn allow for more variety with human sites, since the code has been expanded upon?
Will trees legitimately spread through methods such as seeds in fruit, or will they still just spawn?

As for the first few lines, yeah, all pretty good there.  Haven't done anything with sap.  I haven't expanded human sites, but yeah, the potential increases as I add non-human sites, but not really modding wise for this time.  I haven't gone down into actual seeding yet.

We're getting fruits and flowers, so will we have seeding patterns too?
With the addition of fruits and flowers on trees, will animals such as elephants be able to browse trees?
Will roots be able to damage structures within your fortress?
Are all trees going to use the new multi-tile code?
Some real life trees, such as Baobabs, store large quantities of water inside their trunks. Will some large trees be filled with replenishing water?

No specific reproduction information at this point.  Not doing tree browsing yet.  The vast majority of trees don't do the massive taproot thing, so I'm not sure if any interesting things will happen with roots, but if you are playing like a hill dwarf and mucking about in the soil, you might run into trouble with roots, especially if you are shallow.  All trees but saplings will use multitile code.  I think trees at higher elevations should end up properly stunted, but might still get 2 tiles tall to distinguish them from saplings.  Don't have special plans for the odd cases, aside from things like basic saguaro shapes and things like that.

Will tree roots be multi-tile, and if so, will they remain and decay after the tree is chopped down?

They are, and they'll still be there.  I don't know if they'll decay in any particular way at this point.  That doesn't mean they can't be cleared.

Do all trees grow the same way?

Nope.  There are various parameters in the raws.

When you say "it can all be changed in the raws" do you mean the graphical representation only or the growth parameters as well?

How much control over plant growth will we have in the raws? Will it be fairly basic, as now, or will we have things like MAX_HEIGHT, CANOPY_SHAPE and LIMB_DENSITY?

The growth parameters are all in there.

are the proportions of the trees weve seen so far already the desired picture or are tile dimensions yet to be applied for the trees to be what you want them to be?

It'll depend on the kind of tree more than what you saw there.

Will a given species of tree grow exactly the same in all conditions?

Will the recent volume of rain have any impact on plant growth?

Are we going to see vines at some point? It would be cool to have a climbable plant that grows onto surfaces, like walls and cliff faces. Such a plant could be used like ladders by the elves...

Altitude might have an impact, but I haven't gotten around to a lot of variation within one species.  I like vines, but we aren't there yet.

Is there a possibility that some fruits will rot on the trees, without falling until after they've rotted, or possibly just rotting away? If fruits rot on the trees, how long will it take for them to rot?

Will unharvested fruits attract vermin such as flies?

Will bees make different types of honey now, now that we have flowers?

It can go either way, though things tend to be more uniform depending on where you set your parameters for a given species of tree.  I don't think there'll be flies for the stuff that falls on the ground, since there'll probably be too much of it.  It would need to be reasonably rare to keep things under control.

I haven't changed anything with bees.

[WillowLuman]

Say, there's another power vampires sometimes get: wall-crawling.

Hmm, ladders would be an interesting thing for fort construction, as they save space and block the passage of larger creatures, but disabled dwarves would have a great deal of trouble, as would heavy haulers...

[PigtailLlama]

Say, there's another power vampires sometimes get: wall-crawling.

Hmm, ladders would be an interesting thing for fort construction, as they save space and block the passage of larger creatures, but disabled dwarves would have a great deal of trouble, as would heavy haulers...

To expand on this, imagine the countermeasures you would have to make with siege ladders - Both vertically and horizontally.

[LordBaal]

Murder holes, burning oil, or maybe a simple pole to push the ladder.

[Keldane]

Murder holes, burning oil, or maybe a simple pole to push the ladder.

Raising bridge on the top of the wall that extends two or three tiles out. At the flip of a lever, your wall changes shape - and that's ignoring the "Atom smash anything on the top section" potential.

[WillowLuman]

Or hidden trapdoors beneath the where ladders would be placed, to be opened when they are.

[CaptainArchmage]

Say, there's another power vampires sometimes get: wall-crawling.

Hmm, ladders would be an interesting thing for fort construction, as they save space and block the passage of larger creatures, but disabled dwarves would have a great deal of trouble, as would heavy haulers...

To expand on this, imagine the countermeasures you would have to make with siege ladders - Both vertically and horizontally.

Just seal off the entire guardtower from the outside. To keep things off the ceiling, have an operating minecart track.

[Bronze Dog]

I just love reading all the imaginative ideas people come up with on this forum.

[PigtailLlama]

I just love reading all the imaginative ideas people come up with on this forum.

Indeed. Surprised nobody remembered how universal !!MAGMA!! is though...

[Mr S]

Wait a minute, you mean you don't ALREADY use double curtain walls filled with !!MAGMA!!??